Harvard gives full ride to undocumanted immigrant

[izne1home]

As a private institution, Harvard has not responsibility to provide a fee education to the children of tax paying citizens......

As businessmen in private enterprise, farmers are not required to provide free jobs to children of taxpayers either.  Harvard manages to leverage goodwill from helping the down trodden, but farmers are vilified for doing the same. 

(I'm trying to use your patented fuzzy logic against you but it's giving he a headache)

[diesel]

As businessmen in private enterprise, farmers are not required to provide free jobs to children of taxpayers either.  Harvard manages to leverage goodwill from helping the down trodden, but farmers are vilified for doing the same. 

(I'm trying to use your patented fuzzy logic against you but it's giving he a headache)

You're absolutely right about farmers providing jobs to children of taxpayers......however, there IS a law against HIRING undocumented workers.......we just conveniently ignore it when it suits our needs......and then wail about undocumented workers accessing our education system......I'm just calling a spade a spade......

[izne1home]

You're absolutely right about farmers providing jobs to children of taxpayers......however, there IS a law against HIRING undocumented workers.......we just conveniently ignore it when it suits our needs......and then wail about undocumented workers accessing our education system......I'm just calling a spade a spade......

So, do you want undocumented kids to get free educations or not?  How do you think that undocumented kid got to Harvard?  Some guy like JAF broke the law and gave her dad a job.  The farming community should get some of the credit for these success stories.   

[Coach Scudder]

The solution to both "problems" is to enforce the law.  Since our current government chooses not to, this argument will continue to go round and round!!!  Its called "illegal" immigration for a reason.  Don't you love how the lefties are all calling them undocumented immigrants?  We will NEVER be safe/secure until we return to being a "Country of Law"!!!

[Bronco]

The solution to both "problems" is to enforce the law.  Since our current government chooses not to, this argument will continue to go round and round!!!  Its called "illegal" immigration for a reason.  Don't you love how the lefties are all calling them undocumented immigrants?  We will NEVER be safe/secure until we return to being a "Country of Law"!!!

I agree with you  :u: What part is confusing "illegal" ??!!! or "alien" ??!!!  :shock: They should ALL be rounded up & deported & then use the national guard to "defend" OUR borders instead of somebody else's .

[izne1home]

  I agree with you  :u: What part is confusing "illegal" ??!!! or "alien" ??!!!  :shock: They should ALL be rounded up & deported & then use the national guard to "defend" OUR borders instead of somebody else's .

I tend to be a realist.  Controlling the borders is not much different than gun control.  We can tighten the laws, but we've already got a couple hundred million on the streets so we need to deal with it. 

[OxidizedSilver]

I agree with Lysander Spooner in Noi Treason No. 6, The Constitution of No Authority. The colonist, having won their independence, would not have immiediately put their necks under the heel of a powerful central government/elitist politicians. There was no contract to compel us to abide by or be enslaved to the politicians and their constitution. The constitution was witnessed but it was no a contract. Check out the NoStateProject run by Marc Stevens. When the politicians, IRS agents, attorneys, judges are challenged they cannot provide factual evidence that the constitution and laws apply to anyone just because he is physically present in some geographical location. So this is why Harvard can do what it wants. Sure is it a really painful if we accept the constitution and laws apply as Harvard then rubs our noses in the ol' doot pile by falunting the laws against illegal immigration. When people realize that no one can impose his beliefs on anyone, then borders will cease to exist and economics will direct the flow of people to places they are needed and corporations will be free to choose who they want and there will ceasse the pleas to constitutions and laws. If one then has an objection to a corporation doing what it desires, then he will be free to show how he has been harmed or damaged. We are harmed by the existence of nation states; just witness the slaughters of wars provoked by leaders of such entities. Did you know that FDR provoked Japan to attack the US? Did you know that Lincoln had the choice to say, wayard sisiters depart in peace as pointed out by Winfield Scott? Did you know that Wilson provoked Germany and deceived Americans?

[OxidizedSilver]

The application of Plyler v. Doe has been limited to K-12 schooling, i.e. Plyler doesn't apply to Harvard.

[Bronco]

Illegal should = jail &  alien should = deportation IT"S AS SIMPLE AS THAT - failure to enforce federal / state laws should = impeachment !!  :shock:

[Just_A_Fan]

So, do you want undocumented kids to get free educations or not?  How do you think that undocumented kid got to Harvard?  Some guy like JAF broke the law and gave her dad a job.  The farming community should get some of the credit for these success stories.   

All our guys have the proper papers IZ....they also bust their butts.....though I'm with Diesel to a certain extent on hiring illegals.  We need a new version of the Bracero program....we MUST know who is in this country, set very strict limits on how long they stay, what services they may and may not use, and verify that they leave and go HOME when they are done working....no problem at all with people wanting to work to take care of their family back home, but do have an issue with them taking advantage of our citizen paid for infrastructure with very little in the way of helping pull the cart.  And Harvard takes full advantage of that citizen paid for infrastructures, so Yes Diesel there is a certain amount tax payer money involved in the equation and it certainly isn't the illegals that are paying for it....

Always cracks me up that the people who are the most against illegal immigrants are the immigrants that came her LEGALLY......our ranch foreman is a great example....born and raised in Mexico, came here LEGALLY after waiting his turn, worked his tail off, studied and became a US CITIZEN, and then paid to put his US CITIZEN kids through school....HIS kids should be first in line for places like Harvard, NOT those that broke our laws then play off the bleeding hearts to look the other way when they break our laws, then use words like "diversity" to try and cover it up....

[izne1home]

All our guys have the proper papers IZ....they also bust their butts.....though I'm with Diesel to a certain extent on hiring illegals.  We need a new version of the Bracero program....we MUST know who is in this country, set very strict limits on how long they stay, what services they may and may not use, and verify that they leave and go HOME when they are done working....no problem at all with people wanting to work to take care of their family back home, but do have an issue with them taking advantage of our citizen paid for infrastructure with very little in the way of helping pull the cart.  And Harvard takes full advantage of that citizen paid for infrastructures, so Yes Diesel there is a certain amount tax payer money involved in the equation and it certainly isn't the illegals that are paying for it....

Always cracks me up that the people who are the most against illegal immigrants are the immigrants that came her LEGALLY......our ranch foreman is a great example....born and raised in Mexico, came here LEGALLY after waiting his turn, worked his tail off, studied and became a US CITIZEN, and then paid to put his US CITIZEN kids through school....HIS kids should be first in line for places like Harvard, NOT those that broke our laws then play off the bleeding hearts to look the other way when they break our laws, then use words like "diversity" to try and cover it up....

I originally said a "guy like me" but I thought I'd throw you a bone.

[diesel]

So, do you want undocumented kids to get free educations or not?  How do you think that undocumented kid got to Harvard?  Some guy like JAF broke the law and gave her dad a job.  The farming community should get some of the credit for these success stories.   

If some guy like JAF hadn't broken the law, we wouldn't be having this discussion.......you want to enforce the laws, crack down on the people who are benefiting most from the breaking of those laws......

[Coach Scudder]

America has always been the "Land of Opportunity", and it should always be.  However, there are legal ways to take advantage of said opportunity.  I believe America is great because we have always attracted other country's go getters.  They have always come here for their own improvement and we have benefited from their/our innovation and hard work.  I can not fault those who have done it the right/legal way.  Maybe it should not be as hard or take as long, but the law is the law.  Until it is changed, or made easier, we MUST enforce that law.  Thats the only fare/right thing to do for those who have done it they legal way.

[Just_A_Fan]

I originally said a "guy like me" but I thought I'd throw you a bone.

LOL.....

[OriginalCVFan]

I am willing to bet that the individual accepted to Harvard, even though undocumented, spelled the word "undocumented" correctly ;)

The comparative diatribe going on in this thread seems to be a bit muddled when it comes to comparing individual variables while trying to express individual opinions.

1. First point, undocumented means illegally working and living within our borders and not following the Laws of the Land while habitating within our jurisdictional area of concern.  There are a million variables to this subset that can then be argued pro and con.  majority are con, but a few large, emotional ones are for.  This is one topic/variable at play

2.  Private institution giving a free education to someone who isn't a U.S. citizen.   Hate to say it, go to Harvard, Yale, etc, and roughly 25% of the accepted student body is NOT a documented citizen of the US. Students from IRANIAN, N.Korea, Syria, China, Venezuela, and other terrorist nations, and there is NO PROBLEM. It's a totally different variable, with different rules that need to be adhered too, and different subset altogether.

Comparing the two with broad stroke opinions and emotions may be fun, but the rules, the cause and effect, and the resultant harm/good analysis has very little, if any similarity or comparative basis. 

Now if it was a public university using taxpayer money, then there is a tie in.  If the "undocumented" doesn't get the proper student visa, then there is a tie in.  However the set of rules and regulations that govern each separate situation make it hard to tie the two together. 

[Just_A_Fan]

I am willing to bet that the individual accepted to Harvard, even though undocumented, spelled the word "undocumented" correctly ;)

The comparative diatribe going on in this thread seems to be a bit muddled when it comes to comparing individual variables while trying to express individual opinions.

1. First point, undocumented means illegally working and living within our borders and not following the Laws of the Land while habitating within our jurisdictional area of concern.  There are a million variables to this subset that can then be argued pro and con.  majority are con, but a few large, emotional ones are for.  This is one topic/variable at play

2.  Private institution giving a free education to someone who isn't a U.S. citizen.   Hate to say it, go to Harvard, Yale, etc, and roughly 25% of the accepted student body is NOT a documented citizen of the US. Students from IRANIAN, N.Korea, Syria, China, Venezuela, and other terrorist nations, and there is NO PROBLEM. It's a totally different variable, with different rules that need to be adhered too, and different subset altogether.

Comparing the two with broad stroke opinions and emotions may be fun, but the rules, the cause and effect, and the resultant harm/good analysis has very little, if any similarity or comparative basis. 

Now if it was a public university using taxpayer money, then there is a tie in.  If the "undocumented" doesn't get the proper student visa, then there is a tie in.  However the set of rules and regulations that govern each separate situation make it hard to tie the two together. 

That right there is the difference.....no one has a problem with someone legally, i.e. student visa, coming and going to school here whether that be at Harvard or UCLA.  Same goes for working here, i.e. work visa. It's the blatant flaunting of  breaking our laws and our gooberment's refusal to enforce our laws that pisses the majority off (and that's both sides of the isle too).  These laws are there for legitimate reasons and not enforcing them or letting academic ideologues like at Harvard arrogantly raise up flags saying essentially "we don't give a damn about the law" is one of pieces that's leading to our societal deterioration.  Now I'm sure the student in question did work hard and all of that, however breaking our laws by not going through the student visa or other legal pathways to being in the US is unacceptable, he/she should be detained, along with the Harvard enablers who knowing facilitated this, and proper punishment under our laws should be pursued.....we are collapsing from within and this stuff is a big part of why.

[diesel]

That right there is the difference.....no one has a problem with someone legally, i.e. student visa, coming and going to school here whether that be at Harvard or UCLA.  Same goes for working here, i.e. work visa. It's the blatant flaunting of  breaking our laws and our gooberment's refusal to enforce our laws that pisses the majority off (and that's both sides of the isle too).  These laws are there for legitimate reasons and not enforcing them or letting academic ideologues like at Harvard arrogantly raise up flags saying essentially "we don't give a damn about the law" is one of pieces that's leading to our societal deterioration.  Now I'm sure the student in question did work hard and all of that, however breaking our laws by not going through the student visa or other legal pathways to being in the US is unacceptable, he/she should be detained, along with the Harvard enablers who knowing facilitated this, and proper punishment under our laws should be pursued.....we are collapsing from within and this stuff is a big part of why.

And all I'm saying is DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!! Go after the money........destroy any and all companies that employ "illegals" and that sh*t will END!! But those companies will never let that happen, right Iz?

[laidback]

And all I'm saying is DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!! Go after the money........destroy any and all companies that employ "illegals" and that sh*t will END!! But those companies will never let that happen, right Iz?

If it's illegal for companies to employ illegals, why is it not illegal for Harvard to do the same. There's no difference in a farmer employing illegals as it is in Harvard giving a full ride (employing) to one. Harvard is giving this illegal close to a half million dollars to study (work) in their school.

[diesel]

If it's illegal for companies to employ illegals, why is it not illegal for Harvard to do the same. There's no difference in a farmer employing illegals as it is in Harvard giving a full ride (employing) to one. Harvard is giving this illegal close to a half million dollars to study (work) in their school.

I think I stated this pretty clearly earlier but I'll try again......if our country turns a blind eye to "illegals" when it comes to picking our fruit, we have no moral ground to turn around and b*tch when one of their CHILDREN works harder than our citizens and earns a scholarship! If that "illegal" has no job, they most likely don't stick around very long (or maybe they don't even make the effort to come here in the first place) and the issue at hand is moot.

[Coach Scudder]

I think I stated this pretty clearly earlier but I'll try again......if our country turns a blind eye to "illegals" when it comes to picking our fruit, we have no moral ground to turn around and b*tch when one of their CHILDREN works harder than our citizens and earns a scholarship! If that "illegal" has no job, they most likely don't stick around very long (or maybe they don't even make the effort to come here in the first place) and the issue at hand is moot.

I know you are not as naive, as to think scholarships are just awarded on merit.

[Coach Scudder]