Technology

[Just_A_Fan]

That is drought related......dry wood invites the bug.....

Spoke to a ranger for while about it.  He said they were having issues with whatever this bug is before the drought, but that it wasn't helping....it's only on the west side as you are going into the main park...past that and up into Tuolome everything was green and beautiful...guess they are finally allowing the loggers in to clear it out as it's a tinder box waiting to go up....ranger was saying had they let the loggers in a couple of years ago they could have gotten ahead of it by quite a bit.  Love the forest, my favorite place on the planet, but this stupid idea that we shouldn't be managing it much more proactively is showing how short sighted that mentality is....

[diesel]

Spoke to a ranger for while about it.  He said they were having issues with whatever this bug is before the drought, but that it wasn't helping....it's only on the west side as you are going into the main park...past that and up into Tuolome everything was green and beautiful...guess they are finally allowing the loggers in to clear it out as it's a tinder box waiting to go up....ranger was saying had they let the loggers in a couple of years ago they could have gotten ahead of it by quite a bit.  Love the forest, my favorite place on the planet, but this stupid idea that we shouldn't be managing it much more proactively is showing how short sighted that mentality is....

In our efforts to "manage" it, i.e. CONTROL it, we've screwed it up over and over.......if we'd quit screwing with it, I'd bet nature would take it's rightful course......

[Just_A_Fan]

In our efforts to "manage" it, i.e. CONTROL it, we've screwed it up over and over.......if we'd quit screwing with it, I'd bet nature would take it's rightful course......

Uh, no....that mentality is what has led to the huge forest fires we've experienced....it sounds kum-bi-ah on the surface until you apply a little common sense and look at the law of unintended consequences.  Forest management keeps infestations from spreading, reduces fire potential, and insures logged sections are replanted so we have forest in the future....know a number of rangers and they will tell you the same thing.  And your ignorance on good forest management is atypical of so many and the reason why we have the problems we do.  If you actually look at the logging industry's record on replanting with watchful eyes of the forest management rangers, you would see that because of their collective efforts we have had more and healthier forest lands....wasn't till the kum-bi-ah crowd start pushing stupid policies that we had problems.....

[bksflddan]

65K dead trees in Sequioia Nat Forest alone. Pine beatle, infecting cedar and pine.

Over a million in California alone. Wringing hands anal defilade is exactly why the Yellowstone fire was so devastating.

[diesel]

Uh, no....that mentality is what has led to the huge forest fires we've experienced....it sounds kum-bi-ah on the surface until you apply a little common sense and look at the law of unintended consequences.  Forest management keeps infestations from spreading, reduces fire potential, and insures logged sections are replanted so we have forest in the future....know a number of rangers and they will tell you the same thing.  And your ignorance on good forest management is atypical of so many and the reason why we have the problems we do.  If you actually look at the logging industry's record on replanting with watchful eyes of the forest management rangers, you would see that because of their collective efforts we have had more and healthier forest lands....wasn't till the kum-bi-ah crowd start pushing stupid policies that we had problems.....

Gosh, whatever did the forest DO before we came along to "manage" it????

[laidback]

Let the damn fires do their job. If you are idiot enough to build a home or a city in a fire prone area, you have no right to moan & bitch about how a fire destroyed your life. The forest can manage itself quite well. I read an article once that said the indigenous peoples used to deliberately light fires for this very reason. I do not know if that is true or not, but kind of makes sense. Even lumber jacking leaves brush behind that is the start of most fires. Just let the fires go & they will clean up the area quite nicely & the forest will repair itself. I know this seems a bit strange coming from someone who lives in the mountains, but we do take care to keep our place clean & mostly brush free. I like some brush around for the wildlife, but not enough to create a fire hazard.

[Just_A_Fan]

Let the damn fires do their job. If you are idiot enough to build a home or a city in a fire prone area, you have no right to moan & bitch about how a fire destroyed your life. The forest can manage itself quite well. I read an article once that said the indigenous peoples used to deliberately light fires for this very reason. I do not know if that is true or not, but kind of makes sense. Even lumber jacking leaves brush behind that is the start of most fires. Just let the fires go & they will clean up the area quite nicely & the forest will repair itself. I know this seems a bit strange coming from someone who lives in the mountains, but we do take care to keep our place clean & mostly brush free. I like some brush around for the wildlife, but not enough to create a fire hazard.

So if you have a house in California don't bitch about earthquakes destroying your home, if you live anywhere near the coast and a hurricane destroys your home don't bitch, if you live in the middle of the country don't bitch if a tornado flattens out your place.....REALLY, that's how you see this?     

Now getting back to forest management....we USED to manage the forest areas, mostly through controlled logging in the public lands sections...the loggers used to clear out underbrush that was way overgrown which let the forest "breath" and also reduced the risk of fires that would burn the whole thing down. The rangers used to go through and tag the trees to be removed and the loggers took out the trees and the surrounding underbrush.  If large sections were to be removed they also had a replanting process they went through. Then we got stupid and kicked out 95% of the logging, did the kum-bi-ah thing, and the forest got overgrown, especially in the underbrush, and became a tinder box waiting to go up....and it has.  What the natives did, and the rangers and loggers used to do as well, was set "controlled" burns OF THE UNDERBRUSH to prevent the whole bloody forest from burning down.  That was the way the natives helped "manage" the forests. They weren't stupid, the forest was part of their livelihood, so they learned over the centuries how to best maintain it.  Will the forest come back?  Sure, in a few hundred years, but in the meantime our "let nature just do its thing" mentality has managed to burn down huge sections of the forest needlessly, kill lots of critters, and harm humans too.....that's NUTS when a little, logical forest management could of reduced or prevented much of that....

[laidback]

So if you have a house in California don't bitch about earthquakes destroying your home, if you live anywhere near the coast and a hurricane destroys your home don't bitch, if you live in the middle of the country don't bitch if a tornado flattens out your place.....REALLY, that's how you see this?

Absolutely that's the way I see this. You made the choice, so you live with the results. You gotta pick one & live with the results. How stupid is it to build a home or city in a flood plain, and yet it's being done. To deliberately build in any area that mother nature has a habit of tearing up on a regular basis and then crying oh poor me is stupidity at it's best.

[izne1home]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/kathleen-brown/nobel-prize-winning-physicist-obama-dead-wrong-global-warming-0

"So global warming really starts with these two people: Al Gore and [former United Nations climate head Rajendra] Pachauri," Giaever continued. "And what they did - they made this curve popular...And what did this curve measure? Well, this curve measures what is the average temperature for the world for a whole year...For one year. So there's an average temperature for the whole Earth for one year and that measures in a fraction of a degree.

"So what does that mean? I think probably nothing. Let me talk about that again: From 1880 to 2015, the temperature has increased from 288 K [degrees Kelvin] to 288.8 K - 0.3 percent. I think the temperature has been amazingly stable.

"If I take where I live in Albany, New York, there is roughly an 80 K difference between summer and winter at some time, so would you think that a 0.8 degree average on the Earth makes any difference to the climate in Albany? Is that sensible to you?...

"I would say that global warming basically is a non-problem. Just leave it alone, it will take care of itself," he added.

[Just_A_Fan]

Absolutely that's the way I see this. You made the choice, so you live with the results. You gotta pick one & live with the results. How stupid is it to build a home or city in a flood plain, and yet it's being done. To deliberately build in any area that mother nature has a habit of tearing up on a regular basis and then crying oh poor me is stupidity at it's best.

So where does Mother Nature not tear things up? 

[Just_A_Fan]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/kathleen-brown/nobel-prize-winning-physicist-obama-dead-wrong-global-warming-0

"So global warming really starts with these two people: Al Gore and [former United Nations climate head Rajendra] Pachauri," Giaever continued. "And what they did - they made this curve popular...And what did this curve measure? Well, this curve measures what is the average temperature for the world for a whole year...For one year. So there's an average temperature for the whole Earth for one year and that measures in a fraction of a degree.

"So what does that mean? I think probably nothing. Let me talk about that again: From 1880 to 2015, the temperature has increased from 288 K [degrees Kelvin] to 288.8 K - 0.3 percent. I think the temperature has been amazingly stable.

"If I take where I live in Albany, New York, there is roughly an 80 K difference between summer and winter at some time, so would you think that a 0.8 degree average on the Earth makes any difference to the climate in Albany? Is that sensible to you?...

"I would say that global warming basically is a non-problem. Just leave it alone, it will take care of itself," he added.

Pretty much spot on....

Giaever rejected the notion that man-made global warming is an "incontrovertible" truth, telling his Lindau audience that "global warming really has become a new religion. Because you can't discuss it -- it's not proper."

He added that the "optimal temperature" for the globe has never been establsihed.

"What is the optimal temperature for the Earth? Is it the temperature we have right now? That would be a miracle." he said. "Maybe it's two degrees warmer. Maybe it's two degrees colder. No one has told me what the optimal temperature is for the whole Earth."

[laidback]

So where does Mother Nature not tear things up?

Exactly my point. You pick the one you want to live with & quit bitching when it hits.

[SCrubjay]

.......Let me talk about that again: From 1880 to 2015, the temperature has increased from 288 K [degrees Kelvin] to 288.8 K - 0.3 percent. I think the temperature has been amazingly stable.

"If I take where I live in Albany, New York, there is roughly an 80 K difference between summer and winter at some time, so would you think that a 0.8 degree average on the Earth makes any difference to the climate in Albany? Is that sensible to you?...

that is a really disturbing statement .... it is misleading to those that know nothing about Kelvin.... 288 K is 58.73 F.. and 288.8 K is 60.17 F... so the increase may by .8 K... but in the US of A (suck it Celsius).. that is 1.44 degrees Fahrenheit... the same approximate 3% but a more significant increase when you understand the difference in scale.

[Just_A_Fan]

Exactly my point. You pick the one you want to live with & quit bitching when it hits.

LOL...okay that is about as good as we can probably do

[Just_A_Fan]

.......Let me talk about that again: From 1880 to 2015, the temperature has increased from 288 K [degrees Kelvin] to 288.8 K - 0.3 percent. I think the temperature has been amazingly stable.

"If I take where I live in Albany, New York, there is roughly an 80 K difference between summer and winter at some time, so would you think that a 0.8 degree average on the Earth makes any difference to the climate in Albany? Is that sensible to you?...

that is a really disturbing statement .... it is misleading to those that know nothing about Kelvin.... 288 K is 58.73 F.. and 288.8 K is 60.17 F... so the increase may by .8 K... but in the US of A (suck it Celsius).. that is 1.44 degrees Fahrenheit... the same approximate 3% but a more significant increase when you understand the difference in scale.

That's fair, however once you start reviewing the data manipulation that has been going by NOAA, NASA, and others pushing the warming agenda, which they finally admitted to and/or caught doing, then even that small increase becomes questionable as to its accuracy.  His other points are spot on and not misleading in any way.  We are far from the warmest periods in Earth's history and those warmer periods produced huge vegetation and life expansions.  Actually global cooling would be a much greater threat to our species, the majority of the other species, and vegetation on this rock. 

[izne1home]

.......Let me talk about that again: From 1880 to 2015, the temperature has increased from 288 K [degrees Kelvin] to 288.8 K - 0.3 percent. I think the temperature has been amazingly stable.

"If I take where I live in Albany, New York, there is roughly an 80 K difference between summer and winter at some time, so would you think that a 0.8 degree average on the Earth makes any difference to the climate in Albany? Is that sensible to you?...

that is a really disturbing statement .... it is misleading to those that know nothing about Kelvin.... 288 K is 58.73 F.. and 288.8 K is 60.17 F... so the increase may by .8 K... but in the US of A (suck it Celsius).. that is 1.44 degrees Fahrenheit... the same approximate 3% but a more significant increase when you understand the difference in scale.

The last time I had to calculate a Kelvin conversion was at Bullard in 1975.  Just throwing it out there for dialog, but it is troubling that very smart scientests are polarized on the issue.

[Just_A_Fan]

The last time I had to calculate a Kelvin conversion was at Bullard in 1975.  Just throwing it out there for dialog, but it is troubling that very smart scientests are polarized on the issue.

I think his remark about this stuff becoming a "religion" is why....

[SCrubjay]

The last time I had to calculate a Kelvin conversion was at Bullard in 1975.  ....

See you probably could have done the math better than me, since you went to a rich-kid school.... my inner city education failed me, cause I couldn't even do my own math right....

I dropped a decimal point.. the Kelvin increase is by .278%.. BUT the Fahrenheit increase is 2.45% .... and Celsius is a 5.38% increase....  if you use a different scale, you get a different result... or as JustaFan calls it.... Manipulating the data.

[Just_A_Fan]

See you probably could have done the math better than me, since you went to a rich-kid school.... my inner city education failed me, cause I couldn't even do my own math right....

I dropped a decimal point.. the Kelvin increase is by .278%.. BUT the Fahrenheit increase is 2.45% .... and Celsius is a 5.38% increase....  if you use a different scale, you get a different result... or as JustaFan calls it.... Manipulating the data.

Yep, numbers get manipulated all the time.  :)

[izne1home]

See you probably could have done the math better than me, since you went to a rich-kid school.....

Rich kid math:  2 + 2 = I think it's like 5 or something by it doesn't matter because Daddy will just give me a $20 bill. 

And yes, those were the girls I dated in high school.  Fun and lucrative. 

[izne1home]