Homelessness

[Timmy Winn]

Ball I believe that the government will never allot funds to help this issue because the people who have real influence are not affected by this problem. 1 if they have family members with mental issues they have access to either monitored care or medication and lawyers that will keep them out of jail.

Timmy you are far more informed on this subject that I, but to me it seems that either (if possible) prevention and or intervention much earlier would make more sense. I know a guy, like we all do, that is now on the street he's a drug addict self induced I grew up with this guy so the mental problems now are from the drug use. I have to believe until shown otherwise that much of this mental illness can be traced and attributed so some factor(s) and that's what the focus should be on.

You don't know that mental illness wasn't bubbling under the surface. You don't know that drug use induced his issues. What you do know is that you know someone who now shows obvious signs of mental illness and self medicates with drugs. Schizophrenia often rears its head in our mid 20's. You wouldn't know on the surface that there are issues until they become obvious. But the truth is your friend probably struggled before they tried to self medicate and then the downward spiral began. I do agree that intervention should start as soon as possible and gives us the best chance to treat these guys and give them some dignity and a chance and a productive life where they can contribute to society rather than be viewed as a pariah.

[izne1home]

Honest question.  Have the number of crazy people roaming the streets drastically increased, and if so, why?  Maybe we just did a better job of housing those in need of help in the past and keeping them out of the public eye, but I doubt it.

Same thing with PTSD.  We get plenty of soldiers coming home after one War on Terror tour who really struggle.  The soldiers who fought in WW2 should all suffer from PTSD, but it seems they all came home and went to work. 

Has something changed?  Do we coddle mental illness, or would a sharp General Patton slap and pep talk at a younger age work better?  I know he took some heat, but we won the war. 

PS:  To Timmy's point about self-medicating, most drug addicts have dual diagnoses and are trapped in a downward spiral.  To my question above, if we intervene at an earlier point and find a diagnosis, do we then let that diagnosis define that child for the rest of his/her life, which can be crippling?  Or do we treat it in a way that does not create a dependent?  I don't know, but whatever we are doing now is not working.

If it were up to me, our kids need a little more George Patton and a little less safe-space.  But that's just me...

[Timmy Winn]

Honest question.  Have the number of crazy people roaming the streets drastically increased, and if so, why?  Maybe we just did a better job of housing those in need of help in the past and keeping them out of the public eye, but I doubt it.

Same thing with PTSD.  We get plenty of soldiers coming home after one War on Terror tour who really struggle.  The soldiers who fought in WW2 should all suffer from PTSD, but it seems they all came home and went to work. 

Has something changed?  Do we coddle mental illness, or would a sharp General Patton slap and pep talk at a younger age work better?  I know he took some heat, but we won the war. 

PS:  To Timmy's point about self-medicating, most drug addicts have dual diagnoses and are trapped in a downward spiral.  To my question above, if we intervene at an earlier point and find a diagnosis, do we then let that diagnosis define that child for the rest of his/her life, which can be crippling?  Or do we treat it in a way that does not create a dependent?  I don't know, but whatever we are doing now is not working.

If it were up to me, our kids need a little more George Patton and a little less safe-space.  But that's just me...

Absolutely has increased. See the post about Reagan. He de-institutionalized people that needed institutions. We now have NO place for these guys to go. That's why you see more.
I challenge you to drive past the poverello house tonight and tell me if you think we coddle mental illness. We disregard mental illness and act like we need more George Patton. Sounds good to boomers but it's far from a solution. It's like expecting someone to speak a foreign language without training them and then being tough on them when they can't conform to your demands. They need intervention, not coddling. But to boomers I think those sound like the same thing. They are not. Over half a million soldiers from ww2 came back with PTSD. Over 40% of medical discharges from the military during ww2 was for psychological issues (ptsd mostly). The difference is when they came home there was a social support system to give these guys access to resources they need. Reagan killed that now here we are. I work mostly with ww2 vets and ptsd is real and prevalent with this group. You should see how the SE Asians in this demo are effected by PTSD from the secret war. Boomers are not immune to ptsd and mental illness, quite opposite actually. There are and we're better support systems in place for this group. It's the young mentally ill that we are letting die on the vine.

[BallGuy]

Honest question.  Have the number of crazy people roaming the streets drastically increased, and if so, why?  Maybe we just did a better job of housing those in need of help in the past and keeping them out of the public eye, but I doubt it.

Same thing with PTSD.  We get plenty of soldiers coming home after one War on Terror tour who really struggle.  The soldiers who fought in WW2 should all suffer from PTSD, but it seems they all came home and went to work. 

Has something changed?  Do we coddle mental illness, or would a sharp General Patton slap and pep talk at a younger age work better?  I know he took some heat, but we won the war. 

PS:  To Timmy's point about self-medicating, most drug addicts have dual diagnoses and are trapped in a downward spiral.  To my question above, if we intervene at an earlier point and find a diagnosis, do we then let that diagnosis define that child for the rest of his/her life, which can be crippling? Or do we treat it in a way that does not create a dependent?  I don't know, but whatever we are doing now is not working.

If it were up to me, our kids need a little more George Patton and a little less safe-space.  But that's just me...

So many people in society view mental illness as a stigma, versus any other condition. Any time you let a label define you, it's a slippery slope. Whether it's depression, schitzophrenia, bipolar, jock, mathlete, etc.  If we are talking about early intervention (which we should be) there has to be a system in place to destigmatize these issues.  Instead, we have people that  hide it, or run from it. My FIL is a "cowboy" so he refuses to go back to the doctor and get on meds. I'm not sure if that's a large part of the mental illness, but we can only go off of experience, and that's what I've seen.

[izne1home]

It's the young mentally ill that we are letting die on the vine.

That is the group I was referring to with my coddling question.  Some might argue that our liberal subjective ideology is promoting mental illness at a young age.  When they grow up and become nuisances to society, we put them on the streets to fend for themselves.

Also, your explanation about the WW2 PTSD made sense.  Those guys all came home heroes.  Not so much anymore. 

[Timmy Winn]

That is the group I was referring to with my coddling question.  Some might argue that our liberal subjective ideology is promoting mental illness at a young age.  When they grow up and become nuisances to society, we put them on the streets to fend for themselves.

Also, your explanation about the WW2 PTSD made sense.  Those guys all came home heroes.  Not so much anymore.

I think the only young group we coddle are the mediocre Buchanan athletes that are 'stars' in high school and then flop afterwards. They are told by their parents how great they are and then cold hard reality hits and they realize they are only mediocre. I had to get a Buchanan shot into this discussion.
In seriousness though, what kind of liberal ideology is promoting mental illness?

[izne1home]

I think the only young group we coddle are the mediocre Buchanan athletes that are 'stars' in high school and then flop afterwards. They are told by their parents how great they are and then cold hard reality hits and they realize they are only mediocre. I had to get a Buchanan shot into this discussion.
In seriousness though, what kind of liberal ideology is promoting mental illness?

For starters, there is no longer any objective truth.  If you want to be a girl, you can be a girl.  If Johnny wants to grow his hair out and wear dresses to school, knock yourself out.  If you and your 10-year-old best friend want to know how lesbians have sex, just go to the library where gay sex is celebrated.  We are dealing with kids who are wholly unable to process this sort of information, and we are programming them to hit a wall. I think we are loading the pipeline for mental illness, depression, suicide, and a whole new generation of sidewalk crappers. 

I was raised with some pretty black-and-white rules, and I understood the consequences of my actions.  I was a boy and my world didn't extend much farther than my parents allowed it to.  If I went out of bounds or asked a stupid question, there was a price to pay.

Look at me now!

[Timmy Winn]

For starters, there is no longer any objective truth.  If you want to be a girl, you can be a girl.  If Johnny wants to grow his hair out and wear dresses to school, knock yourself out.  If you and your 10-year-old best friend want to know how lesbians have sex, just go to the library where gay sex is celebrated.  We are dealing with kids who are wholly unable to process this sort of information, and we are programming them to hit a wall. I think we are loading the pipeline for mental illness, depression, suicide, and a whole new generation of sidewalk crappers. 

I was raised with some pretty black-and-white rules, and I understood the consequences of my actions.  I was a boy and my world didn't extend much farther than my parents allowed it to.  If I went out of bounds or asked a stupid question, there was a price to pay.

Look at me now!

I won't argue about the trans issues. I don't get that either. To me that is mental illness but that's another conversation.
10 year olds aren't learning about lesbians at the public library. They're online watching videos. What library do you go to that celebrates gay sex?
You have the ability to make good points but then you throw out these kind of statements that make you and your opinion look antiquated. Stay away from the untrue Fox News conservative talking points, you've got a good mind yourself and don't need to resort to their lowest common denominator approach. This is nuanced and I think you know better. No one walks into a public library straight and walks out gay because gay sex is celebrated there. That's crazier than anything else said in this discussion.
Also I think your black and white upbringing plays into this big time. Let's be honest the world isn't black and white and raising a child nowadays with that approach sets them up for failure and disappointment. It also makes sense on why your outlook is black and white...it's not your fault you were raised to ignore nuance and pick a definitive side. Unfortunately that's not how our world works anymore. Nuance is real.

[TeddyKGB]

I don't know that I believe the "It's the young mentally ill that we are letting die on the vine." I believe much of the issues with the younger group, not boomers as is so trendy to say now, but the millienial and younger is that they never had to deal with adversity. I am sure there are plenty of cases where there are chemical imbalances but when kids are conditioned to believe that they are the center of the family structure and they are never allowed to deal with failure and sheltered from it they have not developed a coping mechanism for when life gets tough. It has nothing to do with just being tough it has to do with the way the person was conditioned to perceive situations. Then you have the other side of that, where parents are quick to medicate their kids no talking, no trying to figure out what is causing the problem instead right to the pills. That's not to say there is no place for meds but I don't believe they should be the first option that is more about the money.

[izne1home]

I won't argue about the trans issues. I don't get that either. To me that is mental illness but that's another conversation.
10 year olds aren't learning about lesbians at the public library. They're online watching videos. What library do you go to that celebrates gay sex?
You have the ability to make good points but then you throw out these kind of statements that make you and your opinion look antiquated. Stay away from the untrue Fox News conservative talking points, you've got a good mind yourself and don't need to resort to their lowest common denominator approach. This is nuanced and I think you know better. No one walks into a public library straight and walks out gay because gay sex is celebrated there. That's crazier than anything else said in this discussion.
Also I think your black and white upbringing plays into this big time. Let's be honest the world isn't black and white and raising a child nowadays with that approach sets them up for failure and disappointment. It also makes sense on why your outlook is black and white...it's not your fault you were raised to ignore nuance and pick a definitive side. Unfortunately that's not how our world works anymore. Nuance is real.

Forgive my occasional Fox News (forbidden to watch in my house) comments.  As a favor to this site's owner, I occasionally pepper my posts with lowest-common-denominator talking points to keep the south valley brethren engaged.   

There is a lot of discussion about the types of material schools are offering to young children.  School districts, along with many others, have found it easier to appease the LGBTQ community with material affirming and normalizing alternative lifestyles, which we can all agree are well beyond a child's ability to understand. 

I wasn't suggesting that Johnny would go gay, but as you pointed out, they are already bombarded with sexual material.  Compounding the confusion that stems from a porn addiction with material that normalizes that behavior, is a bad combination.  That's a little different from flipping through a Hustler or watching porn on your phone, knowing you'll catch hell if you're caught.

In my humble opinion, having raised kids and now grandkids who have stumbled hard along the way, we need to give our kids the best shot possible and prepare them for the real world.  I always talk about the old days of football, when you had to almost paralyze someone to draw a personal foul, earn your spot in the playoffs, and would never dream of transferring to another school for selfish reasons. 

Part of the outdated philosophy is correcting your children when they veer off the path you have set out for them as their parents (that's part of the job).  I gave my kids a pretty wide berth, but there are times when course corrections are needed.  Sometimes a gentle nudge is all it takes, and other times you must resort to tough love.  I might sound black and white, but my kids would tell you differently.  I understand all about nuance - I've learned the hard way, but those shades of grey still exist between the edges of black and white. 

Part of a parent's job is to show your children where the edges of black and white exist.  They're incapable of setting them themselves, and constantly running out of bounds can take a toll.  Just like a football field, there is plenty of room to run.  If it weren't for the referees and white chalk, the game would quickly turn to chaos.  Not much different with life.

[Timmy Winn]

Forgive my occasional Fox News (forbidden to watch in my house) comments.  As a favor to this site's owner, I occasionally pepper my posts with lowest-common-denominator talking points to keep the south valley brethren engaged.   

There is a lot of discussion about the types of material schools are offering to young children.  School districts, along with many others, have found it easier to appease the LGBTQ community with material affirming and normalizing alternative lifestyles, which we can all agree are well beyond a child's ability to understand. 

I wasn't suggesting that Johnny would go gay, but as you pointed out, they are already bombarded with sexual material.  Compounding the confusion that stems from a porn addiction with material that normalizes that behavior, is a bad combination.  That's a little different from flipping through a Hustler or watching porn on your phone, knowing you'll catch hell if you're caught.

In my humble opinion, having raised kids and now grandkids who have stumbled hard along the way, we need to give our kids the best shot possible and prepare them for the real world.  I always talk about the old days of football, when you had to almost paralyze someone to draw a personal foul, earn your spot in the playoffs, and would never dream of transferring to another school for selfish reasons. 

Part of the outdated philosophy is correcting your children when they veer off the path you have set out for them as their parents (that's part of the job).  I gave my kids a pretty wide berth, but there are times when course corrections are needed.  Sometimes a gentle nudge is all it takes, and other times you must resort to tough love.  I might sound black and white, but my kids would tell you differently.  I understand all about nuance - I've learned the hard way, but those shades of grey still exist between the edges of black and white. 

Part of a parent's job is to show your children where the edges of black and white exist.  They're incapable of setting them themselves, and constantly running out of bounds can take a toll.  Just like a football field, there is plenty of room to run.  If it weren't for the referees and white chalk, the game would quickly turn to chaos.  Not much different with life.

You sound like a good parent and even better grandparent(easier job!). Kids need boundaries and there is a lot we can agree on. The other stuff is just there to give us something to talk about. The takeaway I get from this is that all of us want us to take a different approach with how we address homelessness and I think it's clear that there are factors outside of employment and will that factor into this. I think we all agree they need help. I also think we're all pretty skeptical that they will actually get any help.

[BallGuy]

I don't know that I believe the "It's the young mentally ill that we are letting die on the vine." I believe much of the issues with the younger group, not boomers as is so trendy to say now, but the millienial and younger is that they never had to deal with adversity. I am sure there are plenty of cases where there are chemical imbalances but when kids are conditioned to believe that they are the center of the family structure and they are never allowed to deal with failure and sheltered from it they have not developed a coping mechanism for when life gets tough. It has nothing to do with just being tough it has to do with the way the person was conditioned to perceive situations. Then you have the other side of that, where parents are quick to medicate their kids no talking, no trying to figure out what is causing the problem instead right to the pills. That's not to say there is no place for meds but I don't believe they should be the first option that is more about the money.

It is kinda funny that that is the whole point to evolution. Not disagreeing, quite the opposite. But my generation is softer than my dads. Much like my dad's was softer than his. So on and so forth. Cavemen would complain about how their kids no longer have to slay sabortooths (saborteeth?). There's a book called Sapiens that talks about this. Teddy we've talked about this before, but early intervention and exposing kids to a variety of extracurriculars I think would go a long way. I know baseball taught me a lot about perseverance and accountability.

But yes, a step by step process would be great. IE. Counselor then therapist, they Psychiatrist etc.

[BallGuy]