Strange by-product of the current playoff system

[izne1home]

Not to make any excuses for those schools having down years, but during that season the D1 Baseball Bracket only had (or allowed) an 8 team field.

That is another way of saying only the top 8 finishers make it to the playoffs in D1. The problem only arises when you send out mass invitations and try to figure out the seating chart.   

[mkb152]

McLane has over 3,000 kids with about 800 eligible.

We've got to get rid of the big school small school language. It's just silly in the central valley demographic.

Maybe to a point.

The problem lies when a school of 3000 gets pushed down to play those with 650 kids it really isn't a level playing field (or vice versa).  There's a point where numbers become a major problem.

Literally every athlete who could help the team in most schools with 500-750 kids is on the team. And that is simply not the case in most big schools.  Dos Palos, Caruthers, Fowler, Woodlake, Liberty (Ranchos), etc. have around 20% of their male population playing football. 

Public schools need a population ceiling they won't go past, and a floor they can't go under.  Private schools should simply be placed in whatever division they belong (usually 1-2, but there exceptions for the really small ones).

[Darth Backer]

Maybe to a point.

The problem lies when a school of 3000 gets pushed down to play those with 650 kids it really isn't a level playing field (or vice versa).  There's a point where numbers become a major problem.

Literally every athlete who could help the team in most schools with 500-750 kids is on the team. And that is simply not the case in most big schools.  Dos Palos, Caruthers, Fowler, Woodlake, Liberty (Ranchos), etc. have around 20% of their male population playing football. 

Public schools need a population ceiling they won't go past, and a floor they can't go under.  Private schools should simply be placed in whatever division they belong (usually 1-2, but there exceptions for the really small ones).

Good point. Some of the really small schools have closer to 60% of the male population playing.

[o-line]

We've been down this road a million times. No one wants McLane, Roosevelt and Fresno High playing up just because they have over 3,000 students. BIGGER schools is just a silly notion. CN has half the student bodies of those schools but no one in their right mind wants CN playing in D2 and those big enrollment schools playing D1...

McLane has over 3,000 kids with about 800 eligible.

We've got to get rid of the big school small school language. It's just silly in the central valley demographic.

Schools need to learn these kids are student-Athletes first, so they better get busy on their grades because their is no excuse for a school with enrollment over 3000 to be playing any lower than D3 or D4.

[izne1home]

Schools need to learn these kids are student-Athletes first, so they better get busy on their grades because their is no excuse for a school with enrollment over 3000 to be playing any lower than D3 or D4.

I agree, but I'm not sure I would go that low. If a school with D1 enrollment cannot compete at a D3 level, maybe they need to suspend their sports programs and focus on eligibility if they don't like losing.  There's no better motivator than getting hit in the face and embarrassed.  Softening the academics or the competition to give the kids a false sense of accomplishment isn't the answer.

Those kids are only a year, or in some cases, months away from entering the job market. We need to teach them reality-based lessons.  If you jack around at work, they don't soften your job description. 

[TeddyKGB]

Schools need to learn these kids are student-Athletes first, so they better get busy on their grades because their is no excuse for a school with enrollment over 3000 to be playing any lower than D3 or D4.

I am not sure we can blame the school, we all know that there are many factors that contribute to academic success one being the socio-economical make up of the school. I agree schools with 3000 kids shouldn't be lower than D3

[izne1home]

I am not sure we can blame the school, we all know that there are many factors that contribute to academic success one being the socio-economical make up of the school. I agree schools with 3000 kids shouldn't be lower than D3

I get it, but we're not talking about college admissions or scholarships.  We're just talking about remaining eligible in schools that graduate everyone with a pulse.

[TeddyKGB]

We're just talking about remaining eligible in schools that graduate everyone with a pulse.

Now we're getting back to appearances, izne if anyone understands manipulation of information via statistical data it would be you. Remember, high schools tout a graduation rate but they don't have to show the proficiency in basic math and reading of those graduates.  So kids and their parents can  sit thru the same boring " we struggled together and now face new challenges" speech, take the pictures in the cap & gown and feel good about this "accomplishment" but like the diamonds on your pinky rings izne, its a fugazzi

[o-line]

I am not sure we can blame the school, we all know that there are many factors that contribute to academic success one being the socio-economical make up of the school. I agree schools with 3000 kids shouldn't be lower than D3

I came from an era of being in migrant farmworker classrooms because my first language was a leaning barrier, but my parents took me out of those classes because they realized you can't succeed in this country if you cannot communicate. During my time at CE we were told if we wanted to play D2 then we could go coach at at a D2 school, oh how have times have changed in the last 10 years. I came from a low income family along with many other teammates our parents didn't make excuses and we still picked on the weekends. During my time coaching at Hoover with Plummer we always played D1 because it was about holding our school to a standard. Now that the standard has been lowered they now play in D5, but the standard was not only lowered on the field but also in the classroom and with discipline on campus which has a huge detrimental effect not only on FUSD campuses but school sites everywhere. They are student athletes first no excuses, if they can't be a student first that's the parents problem at home they need to fix it, only then can schools succeed in athletics and academics. Drive a car until the wheels fall off it's going to be hard to fix.

[MiddleSchoolLegend]

I came from an era of being in migrant farmworker classrooms because my first language was a leaning barrier, but my parents took me out of those classes because they realized you can't succeed in this country if you cannot communicate. During my time at CE we were told if we wanted to play D2 then we could go coach at at a D2 school, oh how have times have changed in the last 10 years. I came from a low income family along with many other teammates our parents didn't make excuses and we still picked on the weekends. During my time coaching at Hoover with Plummer we always played D1 because it was about holding our school to a standard. Now that the standard has been lowered they now play in D5, but the standard was not only lowered on the field but also in the classroom and with discipline on campus which has a huge detrimental effect not only on FUSD campuses but school sites everywhere. They are student athletes first no excuses, if they can't be a student first that's the parents problem at home they need to fix it, only then can schools succeed in athletics and academics. Drive a car until the wheels fall off it's going to be hard to fix.

Hoover needs to regain access to The Hill, among other things. 

[TeddyKGB]

I came from an era of being in migrant farmworker classrooms because my first language was a leaning barrier, but my parents took me out of those classes because they realized you can't succeed in this country if you cannot communicate.

This is 1st generation immigrant thinking, The Italians, Irish, Jews, Eastern Europeans they all made their children learn English. My first language was also spanish but I was not placed in ESL classes, my mother was of the sink or swim mentality. Its the 2nd generation that wants to make it "easier" for the 3rd generation.

[izne1home]

Drive a car until the wheels fall off it's going to be hard to fix.

Great analogy.

[izne1home]

Now we're getting back to appearances, izne if anyone understands manipulation of information via statistical data it would be you. Remember, high schools tout a graduation rate but they don't have to show the proficiency in basic math and reading of those graduates.  So kids and their parents can  sit thru the same boring " we struggled together and now face new challenges" speech, take the pictures in the cap & gown and feel good about this "accomplishment" but like the diamonds on your pinky rings izne, its a fugazzi

I thought we were talking about D1 population schools having to play down a few divisions due to a lack of eligibility. "Sure, we have 2000 boys in our school, but only 400 of them are eligible to participate in extracurricular activities, so we are really a D4 school."

In today's educational environment, you'd really have to try hard to become academically ineligible.  It's almost impossible.

I've always been a cubic zerconia guy.

[TeddyKGB]

Why would we expect schools to be any different that society, if you want to find an excuse you will.

Here's something to consider, the public education system was designed to produce factory workers, if in the US we are now moving away from making goods and out sourcing it to countries like China and Mexico why are we surprised that public schools are now producing dependents of the state as that is now becoming a major source of our economy.

[izne1home]

Why would we expect schools to be any different that society, if you want to find an excuse you will.

Here's something to consider, the public education system was designed to produce factory workers, if in the US we are now moving away from making goods and out sourcing it to countries like China and Mexico why are we surprised that public schools are now producing dependents of the state as that is now becoming a major source of our economy.

Most of today's student wouldn't qualify to work in factories.  You need to be able to read the Safety Posters and have the work ethic to show up on time every day.  There goes at least half of them.

But back to the question about D1 schools having to play down due to the number of potential student-athletes who fail as students and become ineligible.  How does that happen if teachers are giving out C's to functional idiots? 

For example, McLane has 3,000 students with 800 eligible, which means that 73% are ineligible. That's amazing.  Are the standards for extracurricular activity higher than the graduation standards, because McLane's graduation rate is 89%?

Doesn't add up.

[TeddyKGB]

my guess is that the 62% gap between in ineligible and graduation is made up by one or a combo of a couple of ways:
-make up credits by way of classes that are basically pass fail.
-kids are removed from Mclane to a continuation school thus showing a higher percentage of graduation rate


There is no doubt that most high school graduates are ill equipped to work in factories, that is why the work is being out sourced to Mexico.

[o-line]

my guess is that the 62% gap between in ineligible and graduation is made up by one or a combo of a couple of ways:
-make up credits by way of classes that are basically pass fail.
-kids are removed from Mclane to a continuation school thus showing a higher percentage of graduation rate


There is no doubt that most high school graduates are ill equipped to work in factories, that is why the work is being out sourced to Mexico.

Oh you don't have to go to another school site to make up classes heck you can make up a whole semester in a matter of days in workability classes. Fail the whole first semester make it up during Xmas break, don't want to do that heck fail the whole year make all 60 credits up in summer school in a few weeks. Kids know they don't have to pass their classes now they can take workability classes and make up credits with packet work each week, so their is no incentive to remain eligible during the school year when you can go to school be disrespectful to your teachers, enjoy hours of tax payer free socializing with your friends, and spend the day making Tik Tok videos. If a kid can't graduate with todays standards set so low they need to be shipped off to an island. Being eligible is a complete different story though as they need some sort of discipline and consistency and God forbid parents actually have to do their part at home you know building kids with strong character, trustworthy, and integrity. Maybe let schools (notice I said LET) have wood shop, metal shop, and auto shop classes, because it was parents in the first place that had those classes removed to add more academic classes. Hey what do I know only been in the classroom for 32 years parents seem to know so much more than those of us in the classroom, maybe they should let me tell them how to do their jobs at home, oh wait we can't do things like that because who are we to tell a parent how to raise their child.

[Bud Kilmer]

Central Coast Section just approved a new playoff format for football this fall. According to the reporter on twitter, D1 and D2 will consist of "A" leagues, with D3 and D4 being a combination of "A" and "B" league programs. D5 will only be "B" and "C" league schools.

Now I know this format can be knit picked, and who is A, B, C ect. can still be subjective, but if it shows success, I think we may see this trickle down to the Central Section.

I think for this to work, D1 and D 2 should only be A league schools, D3 and D4 should consist of B and C schools, and because we have 6 divisions in our section, D 5&6 would consist of C schools only. Essentially, you only have the ability to move up a division, not backwards.

Thoughts?

[TeddyKGB]

what constitutes an A or B school?

[izne1home]

what constitutes an A or B school?

For example, CW is an A and Bakersfield is a B. 

If a kid can't graduate with todays standards set so low they need to be shipped off to an island.

Most of the good islands are taken.  We can use Kern County until we find something more suitable.  The boneheads will blend right it and never know they're being punished. 

[izne1home]