Homelessness

[izne1home]

Homelessness Is Paralyzing the West

The 9th Circuit has as much as guaranteed the right of anyone to sleep on any public property free from harassment, requiring towns to surrender their public spaces to homeless encampments. 

The dissenting opinions are pretty strong.  The solutions are already difficult, but with this sort of protection, they are almost impossible. 

Somebody posted this on FB.  "We are standing on the precipice of the destruction of the greatest nation the world has ever known. We are standing, right here, right now, transfixed in horror."

[TeddyKGB]

the issue as I see it is that the idiots that support this kind of nonsense don't see the ripple effect...those filthy sh*tbags that camp on the sidewalk and other public areas deter people from patronizing the businesses in the area, that kills jobs, jobs that create tax revenue for the social programs that those same idiots so strongly want.

[Timmy Winn]

We need to follow the Japanese playbook. They're at 0% homeless. Unfortunately I think most Americans don't give two craps about homeless. Most of the homeless people you see around Fresno are mentally ill and aren't receiving the treatment or meds needed to address their illness. We could do better very easily but I don't think people care.

[Timmy Winn]

I know most commenters on here are conservatives. I'm sure most of you know that homelessness EXPLODED in the 80's when Reagan cut subsidies for low income housing and did away with mental institutions and released thousands with severe mental illness into our cities and communities. Did you agree with Reagan at the time and do you think, in retrospect, that his approach was appropriate? I believe his policy created what we see today and had we implemented JFK's approach to homelessness we'd be in a much better place. 

[TeddyKGB]

Timmy how do you propose we as a society deal with this homeless problem? I agree that a vast majority of them are suffering from some kind of mental disorder but how do you snuff out the problem, because like all issues its not a one thing will fix this issue. I believe that it stems all the way to back to medicating kids at a young age, putting kids on meds when they just need to either reroute their energy into something that interest them or discipline. Not all cases can be fixed like that but my guess is that not every kid medicated needs meds. I'm neither conservative nor liberal and I have also brought up how it was Regan that set this homeless problem in motion. At the same time liberals do not want mentally ill people put away in homes or hospitals. What do we do with them?

[Timmy Winn]

Timmy how do you propose we as a society deal with this homeless problem? I agree that a vast majority of them are suffering from some kind of mental disorder but how do you snuff out the problem, because like all issues its not a one thing will fix this issue. I believe that it stems all the way to back to medicating kids at a young age, putting kids on meds when they just need to either reroute their energy into something that interest them or discipline. Not all cases can be fixed like that but my guess is that not every kid medicated needs meds. I'm neither conservative nor liberal and I have also brought up how it was Regan that set this homeless problem in motion. At the same time liberals do not want mentally ill people put away in homes or hospitals. What do we do with them?

I'd put them in homes and facilities. I'd medicate those that require it. I'd train those that are able to receive training. I'd round everyone up that is living in parks or on the streets and institutionalize them. Try to give them skills that would enable them to contribute to society. It's not perfect but we saw what happened to SF when they decided to turn the entire city into a soup kitchen.

[TeddyKGB]

I'd put them in homes and facilities. I'd medicate those that require it. I'd train those that are able to receive training. I'd round everyone up that is living in parks or on the streets and institutionalize them. Try to give them skills that would enable them to contribute to society. It's not perfect but we saw what happened to SF when they decided to turn the entire city into a soup kitchen.

I have no issue with, in fact agree with everything you mentioned. But that is only a band-aid we need to find a way to prevent the issue of them becoming homeless junkies before it happens. I know we won't prevent mental illness but we need to get it diagnosed and treated earlier.

[Bronco]

Put the crazy ones in the funny farm
Put the Vets in an old soldier home
Put the druggies in prison
Deport the Illegal Aliens
Anybody left - put them on the next freight train out of town - or better yet - the bus to Sacramento.

[BallGuy]

Put the crazy ones in the funny farm
Put the Vets in an old soldier home
Put the druggies in prison
Deport the Illegal Aliens
Anybody left - put them on the next freight train out of town - or better yet - the bus to Sacramento.

Love the empathy here

[eylchamps]

I'd put them in homes and facilities. I'd medicate those that require it. I'd train those that are able to receive training. I'd round everyone up that is living in parks or on the streets and institutionalize them. Try to give them skills that would enable them to contribute to society. It's not perfect but we saw what happened to SF when they decided to turn the entire city into a soup kitchen.

I will add, ship the out of state homeless back to their state. We will not take care of their homeless problem. They need to step up.

but, this will never happen. The courts will never allow it. Free will and the right to live will win in court. I know, it sucks but they have a right to live how they want.

[TeddyKGB]

Love the empathy here

how dare he not show the utmost empathy for those that discard disease infested needles in parks, sh*t on the sidewalk, burn down peoples businesses...

[BallGuy]

how dare he not show the utmost empathy for those that discard disease infested needles in parks, sh*t on the sidewalk, burn down peoples businesses...

All good~just an interesting take. Treating people the same way you'd like to treat the infested needles in parks. I get it, it's a layered and nuanced topic, but these are still human beings. Many of whom need our help. Just difference of philosophies.

[izne1home]

I will add, ship the out of state homeless back to their state. We will not take care of their homeless problem. They need to step up.

but, this will never happen. The courts will never allow it. Free will and the right to live will win in court. I know, it sucks but they have a right to live how they want.

I've done a few ride-alongs with Fresno PD in the Southeast and Southwest areas.  Many calls related to homeless vagrants on the streets, stealing, fighting, etc.  He would speak to them like humans, try to figure out what they needed and find them resources, and in a couple of cases, even offered to pay their bus fare back to their hometowns if they were not from Fresno and wanted to go.  I was struck by this big tough guy's humanity. 

He said most cities up and down the 99 corridor will automatically put people on busses if they can find some ID confirming where they are from.  But not Fresno.  If fact, he said he could probably get in trouble for even offering to pay out of his own pocket. 

I'd put them in homes and facilities. I'd medicate those that require it. I'd train those that are able to receive training. I'd round everyone up that is living in parks or on the streets and institutionalize them. Try to give them skills that would enable them to contribute to society. It's not perfect but we saw what happened to SF when they decided to turn the entire city into a soup kitchen.

I agree.

[BallGuy]

I've done a few ride-alongs with Fresno PD in the Southeast and Southwest areas.  Many calls related to homeless vagrants on the streets, stealing, fighting, etc. He would speak to them like humans, try to figure out what they needed and find them resources, and in a couple of cases, even offered to pay their bus fare back to their hometowns if they were not from Fresno and wanted to go.  I was struck by this big tough guy's humanity. 

He said most cities up and down the 99 corridor will automatically put people on busses if they can find some ID confirming where they are from.  But not Fresno.  If fact, he said he could probably get in trouble for even offering to pay out of his own pocket. 

I agree.

Hero. Love this

[Timmy Winn]

Love the empathy here

Our society has little to no empathy for the homeless/mentally ill. It's easy to call someone a dirtbag from your couch in north Fresno, or your trailer in Shafter. I work with people that, on average, live 200% below the poverty line and most suffer from some type of mental illness and transient living situations. They're still people and I'm passionate about helping them. I'll also have family members that suffer with mental illness and it's not pretty but they're still humans and loved by their families. One of the baddest dudes from CW mid 90's football could be found pretty regularly sleeping in Woodward park and wandering around the area. I'd see him around full bull at first and Nees and I'd always buy him something to eat. Good family, good athlete but totally crippled by mental illness. Again, our society does a terrible job with both homelessness and mental illness. And the attitudes you see in this thread illustrates how people perceive mental illness and homelessness. I don't blame them; I just think they're ignorant.

[TeddyKGB]

I would like to see what percentage of homeless people have a mental illness that isn't attributed to drug use. I can see where a person started their life out behind the proverbial 8-ball if they were born to a drug addict and had zero support, but I am not buying that every homeless person was born with mental illness and thus ended up living on the street and hooked on drugs. I won't lump everyone into the same group, I have no doubt that there are plenty of people that are hooked on drugs and living on the street because of their own choices. It has become chic in our society to blame mental illness and trauma to in an effort to absolve people of any responsibility for their own actions and choices.

Timmy, like most issues in our society once one side of the political spectrum latches on to it the other side immediately takes the opposite view/side/stance. We have right wing nuts that say lock'em up, put them in homes, yet it was the poster boy for the republican party that cut the funding that started this mess. You have the left that says these people need treatment, but you can't lock them up in hospitals its their right to be free. You can't have it both ways.

[izne1home]

If the taxpayers of a city are willing to foot the bill for programs that provide housing, mental health, etc., the city should also have the right to deal with homeless persons who refuse the help.  If a homeless person is either (1) unwilling to accept help, or (2) too far gone to make a competent decision one way or the other, they should be declared vagrants.  They shouldn't have the right to roam the streets aimlessly and bring all the rot, crime, and economic ruin that follows to neighborhoods, local businesses, and property owners.

Empathy has nothing to do with it.  We need to bring some balance back to the system. 

On the other hand, if Timmy is right and people are not willing to put some tax money where their mouths are, then have at it. 

[TeddyKGB]

They shouldn't have the right to roam the streets aimlessly and bring all the rot, crime, and economic ruin that follows to neighborhoods, local businesses, and property owners.

Empathy has nothing to do with it.  We need to bring some balance back to the system. 

The is absolutely correct empathy has nothing to do with it; we can't just allow people to sh*t on sidewalks, pass out where they drop, set up camp in front of businesses because they are mentally ill, as a society we continue to bow down in the name of empathy, tolerance and compassion and it has gone too f'n far. I have no issue setting up help or sanatoriums where they can be house, feed, and kept safe and keep the public safe from them. This may not be PC, but the fact is what kind of help is realistic where they will turn things around?

[Timmy Winn]

If the taxpayers of a city are willing to foot the bill for programs that provide housing, mental health, etc., the city should also have the right to deal with homeless persons who refuse the help.  If a homeless person is either (1) unwilling to accept help, or (2) too far gone to make a competent decision one way or the other, they should be declared vagrants.  They shouldn't have the right to roam the streets aimlessly and bring all the rot, crime, and economic ruin that follows to neighborhoods, local businesses, and property owners.

Empathy has nothing to do with it.  We need to bring some balance back to the system. 

On the other hand, if Timmy is right and people are not willing to put some tax money where their mouths are, then have at it.

I completely agree, except for the empathy part. I think our society has failed these people. Some people want things cleaned up so they don't have to deal with poop on the streets, beggars on the corner, people using drugs openly, etc... while others want things cleaned up because it's important for all people to live with dignity. These guys are sick and aren't living with any dignity. I have some empathy here because I think we could do better.

[izne1home]

I completely agree, except for the empathy part. I think our society has failed these people. Some people want things cleaned up so they don't have to deal with poop on the streets, beggars on the corner, people using drugs openly, etc... while others want things cleaned up because it's important for all people to live with dignity. These guys are sick and aren't living with any dignity. I have some empathy here because I think we could do better.

I have more empathy than I care to admit.  I am one of those 'born on third base' guys, but I know it and often wonder where I'd be if I'd caught some bad breaks.  There but for the grace of God...  But I also expect people to act with decency, self-respect, and respect for others and their property.   

I meant that regardless of your level of empathy, most reasonable people can agree that the current situation is unacceptable and it will not go away by complaining about it.  It will take a big concerted expensive effort to bring these issues back under control. 

[izne1home]