Homelessness

[Timmy Winn]

I have more empathy than I care to admit.  I am one of those 'born on third base' guys, but I know it and often wonder where I'd be if I'd caught some bad breaks.  There but for the grace of God...  But I also expect people to act with decency, self-respect, and respect for others and their property.   

I meant that regardless of your level of empathy, most reasonable people can agree that the current situation is unacceptable and it will not go away by complaining about it.  It will take a big concerted expensive effort to bring these issues back under control.

Well said. I think most agree that we should do more or better. The only difference we feel is if these people are victims of circumstance /genetics or if they are willfully living this kind of life. You expect people to act with decency and self respect, that's like expecting me to speak fluent Chinese just because I'm in china. Some people are completely incapable of behaving or functioning without some kind of intervention, med or redirection. The 'homeless' CW football stud from the 90's (who you probably know) has a ton of family support but without meds he is completely unable to function. That includes him being decent and acting with any self respect. From an outsider it probably appears that he is making a choice to live this way. But his friends and family know that without controlling his illness (meds) he's a lost cause. Honestly it doesn't matter. What does matter is that we agree more can be done. The rare situation where everyone can feel good about the outcome if we can get the homeless off of the streets.

[BallGuy]

Well said. I think most agree that we should do more or better. The only difference we feel is if these people are victims of circumstance /genetics or if they are willfully living this kind of life. You expect people to act with decency and self respect, that's like expecting me to speak fluent Chinese just because I'm in china. Some people are completely incapable of behaving or functioning without some kind of intervention, med or redirection. The 'homeless' CW football stud from the 90's (who you probably know) has a ton of family support but without meds he is completely unable to function. That includes him being decent and acting with any self respect. From an outsider it probably appears that he is making a choice to live this way. But his friends and family know that without controlling his illness (meds) he's a lost cause. Honestly it doesn't matter. What does matter is that we agree more can be done. The rare situation where everyone can feel good about the outcome if we can get the homeless off of the streets.

I see it in meetings all the time. It's people from all walks of life. I have NO idea what the splits are between poor choices/mental illness etc. But I know a lot of people who have been homeless, who have a great family support, but like you said, are lost causes without intervention. Al anon also preaches that you separate with love when it comes to family members getting clean. Thought I'd throw in those tidbits, but I appreciate you IZ and Teddy's opinion on this stuff.

My father in law is homeless, and suffers from Bipolar, so this topic hits a little close to home from me. These types of topics I think highlight the differences between sympathy and empathy. I have a ton of empathy towards the homeless. I know I was close to it when I was on the bottle. For many, I don't really have a lot of sympathy towards, as there's a solution. More AA talk thrown in here than I probably should have

[TeddyKGB]

I was not born on third base, but I do understand that without the strong influences like my coaches, parents of friends and family with strong morals and values I would not live the life I have. I am way...way WAY more blessed than I deserve. I often wonder when I see a homeless person what their situation was...did they not have support (family or whatever) are they on drugs or what because I understand  that everyone has a story. I have to believe some people just don't care and others really just don't know what they are doing they have lost what we would call a sense of right and wrong. I know this because I have witnessed izne do unspeakable things.

[izne1home]

I know this because I have witnessed izne do unspeakable things.

Third-base guys need strong influences as much, if not more, than first-base guys when life's fastballs come in high and tight and they find out how poorly prepared they are. 

Actually, we were squarely on first base when I was born.  But my parents worked hard to get us in scoring position by the time we entered the job market and always stressed hard work and independence.  There's probably a difference between being born on third-base, and having a good coach who shows you how to advance around the bases.

"Unspeakable" is a relative term.  You're just a little too sensitive sometimes.

[izne1home]

I see it in meetings all the time. It's people from all walks of life. I have NO idea what the splits are between poor choices/mental illness etc. But I know a lot of people who have been homeless, who have a great family support, but like you said, are lost causes without intervention. Al anon also preaches that you separate with love when it comes to family members getting clean. Thought I'd throw in those tidbits, but I appreciate you IZ and Teddy's opinion on this stuff.

My father in law is homeless, and suffers from Bipolar, so this topic hits a little close to home from me. These types of topics I think highlight the differences between sympathy and empathy. I have a ton of empathy towards the homeless. I know I was close to it when I was on the bottle. For many, I don't really have a lot of sympathy towards, as there's a solution. More AA talk thrown in here than I probably should have

Maybe we shouldn't view their homeless situation as the problem.  It is just a result of some other issue.  Almost one-third of the homeless population are families (or single mothers) with small children.  20% are chronically homeless.  In many cases, mental illness and drug abuse resulted in being homeless, but for others, becoming homeless and helpless led to the drug addiction and mental illness that now holds them down. 

It's a tough nut to crack.  I've spent a small fortune sending Teddy to self-help seminars, Tonny Robbins retreats..., and he's still pretty much a deadbeat. 

[TeddyKGB]

I've spent a small fortune sending Teddy to self-help seminars, Tonny Robbins retreats..., and he's still pretty much a deadbeat.

but my golf game has vastly improved, I have helped many a young lady pay her way thru beauty school...all in all money well spent.

[izne1home]

but my golf game has vastly improved, I have helped many a young lady pay her way thru beauty school...all in all money well spent.

Like I've always said, take the wins wherever you find them. 

[TeddyKGB]

Like I've always said, take the wins wherever you find them.

is that how the go ugly early philosophy was born?

[izne1home]

is that how the go ugly early philosophy was born?

No.  That is purely a time-management and cost-benefit strategy.  Sort of like eating at buffets and sharing taxis. 

[TeddyKGB]

No.  That is purely a time-management and cost-benefit strategy.

So is the formula something like the lower the BMI & attractiveness the lower the bar and food bill thus the higher the probability of coitus and fellatio? Or
(BMI + A) + $ = score?

[izne1home]

So is the formula something like the lower the BMI & attractiveness the lower the bar and food bill thus the higher the probability of coitus and fellatio? Or
(BMI + A) + $ = score?

Close, but you have to be able to do the calculations almost intuitively, not on the back of a bar napkin.  Good execution requires split-second decision-making. 

[TeddyKGB]

not on the back of a bar napkin

some of my best capers have been formulated on the back of a bar napkin...

[izne1home]

some of my best capers have been formulated on the back of a bar napkin...

By caper, do you mean doing a bunch of 5th-grade math to make sure you can pay your 'date' and still have enough gas money to get home?

[TeddyKGB]

By caper, do you mean doing a bunch of 5th-grade math to make sure you can pay your 'date' and still have enough gas money to get home?

I am detecting a bit of condescension with sprinkles of judgment... you may act all high and mighty but you forget that I know about the times you have abandoned your "date" at the all night buffet in the Orleans.

[Bronco]

I was in town  this morning & stopped counting HELP WANTED signs when I got to 100. Do something to help yourself before expecting any free hand-outs from me.  You want empathy? They can come out here and dig dock weed out of my pastures all day & make more than enough to stay at Motel. 6 !

[BallGuy]

I was in town  this morning & stopped counting HELP WANTED signs when I got to 100. Do something to help yourself before expecting any free hand-outs from me.  You want empathy? They can come out here and dig dock weed out of my pastures all day & make more than enough to stay at Motel. 6 !

Man, I understand what you're saying. And I mean this without any sarcasm or anything. It's freaking awesome that you are in a position to employ folks, and help them improve their livelihood. IMO, and TImmy can speak to it further as he has direct experience with this issue, but this isn't about people simply not working. Albeit, this society needs more "pull yourself up by the bootstraps", but this population is not capable of working. I think you are asking these people to run, when simply put, they need to learn how to crawl.

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, but with how terrible our gov is at spending money and allocating it appropriately, I'd imagine there's more than enough finances to put forth some actual change making strategies. That being said, there's a lot of free resources out there as well. We mentioned that many are drug addicts/alcoholics, when the most effective drug treatment (based on studies) is the 12 step program-which is free.

[Timmy Winn]

This isn't an employment problem. There are plenty of jobs if you are able to and want to work. This is a mental health problem. It's not being treated and they can't function without meds intervention and treatment. We have a problem to solve before we even get to employment issues. Be honest would you bring the homeless guys who roam around Woodward park to your home to do work? In theory maybe you'd like to think you would, but I wouldn't and I don't believe you would either. That's not safe. They're crazy. They need help. That's why they're homeless.

[Timmy Winn]

Maybe we shouldn't view their homeless situation as the problem.  It is just a result of some other issue.  Almost one-third of the homeless population are families (or single mothers) with small children.  20% are chronically homeless.  In many cases, mental illness and drug abuse resulted in being homeless, but for others, becoming homeless and helpless led to the drug addiction and mental illness that now holds them down. 

It's a tough nut to crack.  I've spent a small fortune sending Teddy to self-help seminars, Tonny Robbins retreats..., and he's still pretty much a deadbeat.

Amen...

[BallGuy]

This isn't an employment problem. There are plenty of jobs if you are able to and want to work. This is a mental health problem. It's not being treated and they can't function without meds intervention and treatment. We have a problem to solve before we even get to employment issues. Be honest would you bring the homeless guys who roam around Woodward park to your home to do work? In theory maybe you'd like to think you would, but I wouldn't and I don't believe you would either. That's not safe. They're crazy. They need help. That's why they're homeless.

This 1,000%

[TeddyKGB]

Ball I believe that the government will never allot funds to help this issue because the people who have real influence are not affected by this problem. 1 if they have family members with mental issues they have access to either monitored care or medication and lawyers that will keep them out of jail.

Timmy you are far more informed on this subject that I, but to me it seems that either (if possible) prevention and or intervention much earlier would make more sense. I know a guy, like we all do, that is now on the street he's a drug addict self induced I grew up with this guy so the mental problems now are from the drug use. I have to believe until shown otherwise that much of this mental illness can be traced and attributed so some factor(s) and that's what the focus should be on.

[TeddyKGB]