where's the refs?

[taysdad]

lookin for some insight from our officials that are part of cvhspreps. apparently it's legal to trip/slide tackle as a means to stop the ball carrier. any insight?

[taysdad]

[izne1home]

lookin for some insight from our officials that are part of cvhspreps. apparently it's legal to trip/slide tackle as a means to stop the ball carrier. any insight?

I'm not an official, but I thought tripping the ball carrier is an allowed means of tackling.  Tripping anybody else is a personal foul. 

[izne1home]

[TeddyKGB]

tripping is completely legal only if the player that commits the tripping is a member of a CUSD school and does it only to prevent a Bakersfield player from advancing further...that's exactly how it reads in the rule book that officials will provide if the game is at either LaMonica or Veterans.

[TeddyKGB]

[whitemarbles]

Please please PLEASE do not invite any refs on this site. May I just say, the level of reffing in this valley is RIDICULOUS.

[whitemarbles]

[Jazz]

Font is too small for them to read anyway.

[Jazz]

[TeddyKGB]

Please please PLEASE do not invite any refs on this site. May I just say, the level of reffing in this valley is RIDICULOUS.

same thing people say everywhere...

[TeddyKGB]

[taysdad]

Did some reading on nfhs and iz is right. Tripping is legal only to the ball carrier. 15 yards if anyone else

[taysdad]

[whitemarbles]

Font is too small for them to read anyway.

Agree!

[whitemarbles]

[whitemarbles]

same thing people say everywhere...

Maybe. It is still RIDICULOUS!

[whitemarbles]

[FB_Referee]

Tripping is legal if committed against the runner.

As to "whitemarbles" claim that the officiating in the Valley is ridiculous, I encourage you to sign up to become a Football Official for the 2015 season.  I also encourage "jazz" who claims that Officials can't read the small font, to do the same.  In fact, you are cordially invited to attend our next Officials meeting on Monday, September 29th at Fresno Christian High School, beginning at 6:30pm.

I'd be more than happy to let you address your concerns to the group.

[FB_Referee]

[DTFan]

FB_Referee,

Make it an appoint to take a look at each referee association. For example, after a touchdown, in Kern County the extra point is not a timed play. But in Tulare County, it is. What gives? If each referee association operates under CIF rules why does one association do one thing and the other another thing?

After watching countless years of football games, it is also obvious to me that certain referee crews have it in their minds that they will favor one team over the other. One team will commit an obvious infraction right in front of the official and nothing gets called. When the coach questions them about it, the Refs simply shake their heads and walk away. Its as if the officials don't care. They have this "I'm the head official and what I say goes," attitude about them. But yet, there are some really good officiating crews who call the game right down the middle, no favorites.

Take the time and listen to what coaches have to say. I guarantee that if you do that, Referees will gain more respect than what is already given to them.

[DTFan]

[TeddyKGB]

Maybe. It is still RIDICULOUS!

you should remember that the level of officiating is equal to the talent on the field. I have been to games that I later read on here how bad the officals were and I think, no they just made calls against your team at an inoppurtune time. The problem I see is you expect the officals to be perfect and thats never going to happen, EVER!

[TeddyKGB]

[Bronco]

you should remember that the level of officiating is equal to the talent on the field. I have been to games that I later read on here how bad the officals were and I think, no they just made calls against your team at a inoppurtune time. The problem I see is you expect the officals to be perfect and thats never going to happen, EVER!

:u: They are NOT even perfect in the NFL ! !

[Bronco]

[FB_Referee]

FB_Referee,

Make it an appoint to take a look at each referee association. For example, after a touchdown, in Kern County the extra point is not a timed play. But in Tulare County, it is. What gives? If each referee association operates under CIF rules why does one association do one thing and the other another thing?

After watching countless years of football games, it is also obvious to me that certain referee crews have it in their minds that they will favor one team over the other. One team will commit an obvious infraction right in front of the official and nothing gets called. When the coach questions them about it, the Refs simply shake their heads and walk away. Its as if the officials don't care. They have this "I'm the head official and what I say goes," attitude about them. But yet, there are some really good officiating crews who call the game right down the middle, no favorites.

Take the time and listen to what coaches have to say. I guarantee that if you do that, Referees will gain more respect than what is already given to them.

The try is always untimed - throughout the USA for NFHS.

  I have never met an official who cares about a certain team winning or losing.  Maybe perception is that at times, but it's far from the truth.  We preach to all officials that we should listen to Coaches.  It's a two way street though.  Like another User said... We are not perfect nor ever will be.  We are HS Officials.  Appreciate us for what we do and we appreciate the magnitude of dedication each Coach endures as well as the amount of dedication each player must put forward.

[FB_Referee]

[DTFan]

FB_Referee

Thank you for listening. I've read many topics here and some people will jump down others throats for posting a reply like mine, but that wasn't the case with you.

The case with the extra point timed had me baffled. When I was on the sidelines taking pictures for a team that I follow, one of the officials flagged the team on the extra point saying they took too much time. But when that same team was in Kern county, the official said that the extra point wasn't timed. So as you can imagine, we were all scratching out heads on that one.

I my self, in all honesty, do appreciate the officials. I run the scoreboard for different sports and have gotten to know many of the officials personally. Many of them officiate multiple sports. It doesn't matter what sport it is, the toughest job on the court or field has to be, hands down, the refs job. They receive more criticism than coaches or players.

[DTFan]

[izne1home]

Many years ago I was at a game standing behind the endzone.  A team (not CW) was up by one and was punting out of their own endzone with only a minute or two left.  The punter set up about a foot from the back of the endzone.  The ref made a point of telling him that if his heel touches that backline while receiving the snap or kicking the ball, he will call a safety.  The kid moved up a little but not much.  Sure enough, the snap was a little off causing the punter to take a stutter step, and you guessed it, his heel hit the back line, maybe as little as an inch, but the ref was right on top of it.

He called a safety, the team lost by a point, and the ref had to be escorted off the field.  There was no consoling the angry crowd, who was convinced that the ref threw the game.  I wasn't sure they guy was going to make it to his car.  I gained a whole new respect for those guys. 

Having said that, everybody knows CW got home jobbed by the refs in the 06 game at Madera by the "3 Blind Mice". 

[izne1home]

[TeddyKGB]

izne and everyone knows that Bakersfield was home jobbed everytime they played Clovis or CW

[TeddyKGB]

[CWClassof2007]

Font is too small for them to read anyway.

Especially if they work games in Madera.

[CWClassof2007]

[CWClassof2007]

Many years ago I was at a game standing behind the endzone.  A team (not CW) was up by one and was punting out of their own endzone with only a minute or two left.  The punter set up about a foot from the back of the endzone.  The ref made a point of telling him that if his heel touches that backline while receiving the snap or kicking the ball, he will call a safety.  The kid moved up a little but not much.  Sure enough, the snap was a little off causing the punter to take a stutter step, and you guessed it, his heel hit the back line, maybe as little as an inch, but the ref was right on top of it.

He called a safety, the team lost by a point, and the ref had to be escorted off the field.  There was no consoling the angry crowd, who was convinced that the ref threw the game.  I wasn't sure they guy was going to make it to his car.  I gained a whole new respect for those guys. 

Having said that, everybody knows CW got home jobbed by the refs in the 06 game at Madera by the "3 Blind Mice". 

Do you mean the phantom clipping call after a kickoff was returned for a touchdown or the phantom holding call on what would have been the game winning touchdown?

[CWClassof2007]

[TheGo2Guy]

FB_Referee

The case with the extra point timed had me baffled. When I was on the sidelines taking pictures for a team that I follow, one of the officials flagged the team on the extra point saying they took too much time. But when that same team was in Kern county, the official said that the extra point wasn't timed. So as you can imagine, we were all scratching out heads on that one.

I my self, in all honesty, do appreciate the officials. I run the scoreboard for different sports and have gotten to know many of the officials personally. Many of them officiate multiple sports. It doesn't matter what sport it is, the toughest job on the court or field has to be, hands down, the refs job. They receive more criticism than coaches or players.

PATs are untimed downs for the 'GAME Clock' (the time on the scoreboard). However, every single 'PLAY' (from a free kick to a scrimmage play) has a '25 Second PLAY Clock.' The 'PLAY Clock' is totally independent from the 'GAME Clock' and is usually kept on the field at high school levels by the officials. Once the white hat blows the whistle signaling, 'Ready To Play,' the team in possession of the ball has 25 seconds to get their 'PLAY' off. I wasn't at the game, but in the case you mentioned sounds like the team obviously got flagged for exceeding 25 seconds which is a Delay of Game penalty (ie. "taking too much time"). Nothing wrong with the Tulare County officials call because Kern, Kings, and Fresno County would call the same thing. Only thing wrong I see is your understanding of the game LOL :)- Just ribbing you that's all :D :argue: :ref: :ball:

[TheGo2Guy]

[DTFan]

Hey,  I don't mind it in the least  :)-

But let me tell you though. Of the 7 games I've seen at home, the officials have called it down the middle. Ive heard many if the fans that like to give refs a hard time say that they have called the game evenly. But it still wouldn't be a bad idea if coaches and refs sit down and talk. Let each side hear what the other has to say.

[DTFan]

[TheGo2Guy]

They do. In some way shape or form...off season, before season, during season, after games, and even after that, lol.

[TheGo2Guy]

[izne1home]

Do you mean the phantom clipping call after a kickoff was returned for a touchdown or the phantom holding call on what would have been the game winning touchdown?

Take your pick.  If I had to choose, it would be the reversal of the game winning TD.  It was wrong on several levels.  A D4 crew officiating a D1 game using Texas HS rules. 

[izne1home]

[whitemarbles]

Tripping is legal if committed against the runner.

As to "whitemarbles" claim that the officiating in the Valley is ridiculous, I encourage you to sign up to become a Football Official for the 2015 season.  I also encourage "jazz" who claims that Officials can't read the small font, to do the same.  In fact, you are cordially invited to attend our next Officials meeting on Monday, September 29th at Fresno Christian High School, beginning at 6:30pm.

I'd be more than happy to let you address your concerns to the group.

Please...... same old argument. Here is what I expect, consistency!!!!! Of course refs are going to make mistakes, human, yes I get it. BUT I EXPECT THEM TO BE RIGHT MORE THAN WRONG. and that is no where near the case. Just this afternoon, I asked a crew about ineligible receivers and I got three blank stares!!! Listen, refs are one of the jobs you have to get right MOST of the time. Cops, firefighters, doctors....refs....(thats funny) Pass interference, please 50/50 shot at best, holding, good luck. Then, you try to get an explanation and here comes the power trip. Listen, am I painting with a broad brush...yes admittedly. But ask coaches...nothing worse that two or three bad calls that shift the balance of a game and undo a weeks worth of work by your athletes.
I'll leave you with this.....was losing 3-0, 4th quarter.....other team lines up for a field goal...we block it, my guy returns it untouched....TOUCHDOWN!!! uh no, inadvertent whistle....."Sorry Coach, my guy forgot you can return a blocked field goal. He thought it was the same as a PAT" Game over...thank you Tulare Co, refs.....

[whitemarbles]

[izne1home]

I'll leave you with this.....was losing 3-0, 4th quarter.....other team lines up for a field goal...we block it, my guy returns it untouched....TOUCHDOWN!!! uh no, inadvertent whistle....."Sorry Coach, my guy forgot you can return a blocked field goal. He thought it was the same as a PAT" Game over...thank you Tulare Co, refs.....

Does the head referee have any discretion whatsoever in situations like that?  What if the returner had clear path to the end zone and would have scored absent him falling down. 

[izne1home]

[whitemarbles]

Does the head referee have any discretion whatsoever in situations like that?  What if the returner had clear path to the end zone and would have scored absent him falling down. 

Inze, he did score. Clear and unobstructed. White hat said.."sorry I can't bring back an inadvertent whistle." and he was right on that point.  My point is this, without harping on......it has been MY experience that you seem to get those game changing bad calls EVERY week. It gets frustrating. FYI, did I mention it was the second inadvertent whistle that game?

[whitemarbles]

[izne1home]

Inze, he did score. Clear and unobstructed. White hat said.."sorry I can't bring back an inadvertent whistle." and he was right on that point.  My point is this, without harping on......it has been MY experience that you seem to get those game changing bad calls EVERY week. It gets frustrating. FYI, did I mention it was the second inadvertent whistle that game?

That might be the worst possible scenario.  I've seen some games lost on absurd calls, but at least the official thought he saw something.  But to take a win off the board due to an irreversible error by an official, is inexcusable. 

An inadvertent whistle suggests that it wasn't blown intentionally.  Sounds to me like this official fully intended to blow the play dead.  It was a mistake, but it wasn't inadvertent. 

[izne1home]

[wellnow]

Take your pick.  If I had to choose, it would be the reversal of the game winning TD.  It was wrong on several levels.  A D4 crew officiating a D1 game using Texas HS rules. 

I was standing beside Coach B and the official asked him what he thought and he said they were both great calls.

[wellnow]

[izne1home]

I was standing beside Coach B and the official asked him what he thought and he said they were both great calls.

I bet he did.  You've got to admit, that phantom holding call was pretty bad.  We studied every film we could get, hoping to actually see something that looked like a penalty.  It would have made the loss easier to take.

Nada. 

[izne1home]

[UnbiasedOne]

Maybe. It is still RIDICULOUS!

If you feel that strongly about it, you are encouraged to join your local association and make it better with your vast knowledge and expertise.  The fact is, you wouldn't know good officiating from bad officiating especially through whatever glasses you see it through.  Another fact, there already are plenty of officials on this site.  As one of the original members of this site (who hasn't posted much in a while, still glad to hear from some of the vets like IZNE and Teddy), too late to not invite them!

[UnbiasedOne]

[goodref]

Hello gentlemen.  Interesting topic and as an official I needed to comment. First of all, no matter what you do or not do on the football field 50% of the coaches and spectators will be angry. We get used to it. Secondly, a major issue at this time is a severe inability to attract new, capable people willing to leave their families alone on Fall friday nights, weekends, and Monday nights for games and meetings. Add to that the off season commitments like scrimmages(free), camps and clinics(expensive), and, in my case, crew rule meetings monthly--- and it's getting damn near impossible to attract new talent. We (SJVOA ) do our best to train our officials, but a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link and an inexperienced official with 4 veterans can be guilty of poor judgment. Something like an inadvertent whistle can really mess up the outcome of a game and an official's career. Until more committed individuals are willing to make football officiating their avocation and pursue it with passion (as I do), there will be more unfortunate stories from people who observe and feel the need to criticize.

[goodref]

[whitemarbles]

If you feel that strongly about it, you are encouraged to join your local association and make it better with your vast knowledge and expertise.  The fact is, you wouldn't know good officiating from bad officiating especially through whatever glasses you see it through.  Another fact, there already are plenty of officials on this site.  As one of the original members of this site (who hasn't posted much in a while, still glad to hear from some of the vets like I zone and Teddy), too late to not invite them!

Trust me Guy, I know good officiating from bad. You don't have the market cornered on it. There are good officials out there, but as a whole, the level is bad.

[whitemarbles]

[whitemarbles]

Hello gentlemen.  Interesting topic and as an official I needed to comment. First of all, no matter what you do or not do on the football field 50% of the coaches and spectators will be angry. We get used to it. Secondly, a major issue at this time is a severe inability to attract new, capable people willing to leave their families alone on Fall friday nights, weekends, and Monday nights for games and meetings. Add to that the off season commitments like scrimmages(free), camps and clinics(expensive), and, in my case, crew rule meetings monthly--- and it's getting damn near impossible to attract new talent. We (SJVOA ) do our best to train our officials, but a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link and an inexperienced official with 4 veterans can be guilty of poor judgment. Something like an inadvertent whistle can really mess up the outcome of a game and an official's career. Until more committed individuals are willing to make football officiating their avocation and pursue it with passion (as I do), there will be more unfortunate stories from people who observe and feel the need to criticize.

Goodref, I can respect your stance. I am glad to see you in a sense agree the overall level is going down. I agree you are probably having a hard time recruiting good guys/gals. I have been around awhile and the overall level has digressed at an amazing pace. We who have been around know the good crews get the CN. CW Central Bullard type big games. But trust me, come out to Selma, Avenal, Orange Cove, Parlier and see what you get. It's truly unbelievable sometimes. I wish you luck in your recruitment, it can only get better.

[whitemarbles]

[Glenn]

you know  a Team always Holding   it can be Flag  every Play    im Seriourley    if the OL Guy got his hand and Elbow   in  the Block and the arm  of the defense  ouraside his Elbow   it  a Holding   if you have to Grabs the jesery  Keep your man   in front  of ya 

Look at  the NFL   teams

i watch  some NFL  Games today  Man   Both Teams  Hold their the Defense to not Get his to the RB  or QB   

i am Serourly    No teams wont score a point     If their Get  over the 50 yard   

[Glenn]