Officials

[PatsFan]

Last night the Wolfpack vs Patriot game was marred by the worst officiating I have ever witnessed. The officials desperately wanted to make their presence felt... And they did to the tune of over 30 + penalties and a game that lasted until 11:00pm. It was terrible and hopefully that crew will not be together and or severely reprimanded for an embarrassing performance.

The last game vs Clovis West was clean and the officials did a great job of keeping control of the game and letting the kids play the game. This week was a complete reversal with a flag every other play.


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[PatsFan]

[Glenn]

Last night the Wolfpack vs Patriot game was marred by the worst officiating I have ever witnessed. The officials desperately wanted to make their presence felt... And they did to the tune of over 30 + penalties and a game that lasted until 11:00pm. It was terrible and hopefully that crew will not be together and or severely reprimanded for an embarrassing performance.

The last game vs Clovis West was clean and the officials did a great job of keeping control of the game and letting the kids play the game. This week was a complete reversal with a flag every other play.
:

Don't feeling bad    Patsfan 

at our game we have  16 and 16   32 Penitly didn't finished  until 11 pm too

[Glenn]

[taysdad]

bvarsity echoed your feelings on twitter during the game. "Too much of this game predicated by officials and calls. Two talented teams with experience. Sometimes let them play."

[taysdad]

[Majorapplewhite]

Is it customary for the umpire to spot forward progress on plays? 

[Majorapplewhite]

[DTFan]

What I noticed is that some officials tend to be biased towards one team. For example, during the Delano vs East game, the officials would not call offsides on East during kickoffs even when it was way too obvious. During the Delano vs South, a Delano player was penalized for PI when it was clear that the South player pushed the defender.

Then there are games where the officials are unbiased and call the game down the middle. I personally know many of the offials who officiate in Kern and Tulare counties and many of these guys do multiple sports. It's always nice when the head official or one of the other ones come up to the pressbox, introduce themselves and inform us of any new rule changes, etc or to go over signals or answer any questions.

[DTFan]

[Jazz]

I'm hoping the refs are rusty just like the teams were in week 1 & 2. I've seen a head scratcher game, and one that was pretty equal so far.

[Jazz]

[The Eye in the Sky]

I've seen some pretty bad officiating in my day, and to me they fall into two categories (for the most part)

High School: It's all about me, I dictate how this game is going to be played attitude. The types of guys that didn't get to play meaningful snaps in high school, somewhat bullied, always had the girl he liked taken by the guy starting at his position, then went into law enforcement or something of that nature to "show them"

Pop Warner: "Let's end this crap so I can go home and collect my check."

I know there are some really good ones out there, just the bad ones seem to carry these two types of personalities in my opinion. That is excluding the personal bias that some have on top of that.

[The Eye in the Sky]

[Sixtynine]

The CW-Edison crew last night made the game such a downer. The first half lasted about an hour and 45 minutes. Didn't stay to the end. Halftime started at about 9:45 after a late start.

In high school football, you could call multiple penalties on every play and the crew last night wanted to make that fact known.

Gotta let kids play the game at some point. There was no flow at all during the game for either team cause there was a 2 minute stoppage after every play

[Sixtynine]

[kastnertbirds]

The CW-Edison crew last night made the game such a downer. The first half lasted about an hour and 45 minutes. Didn't stay to the end. Halftime started at about 9:45 after a late start.

In high school football, you could call multiple penalties on every play and the crew last night wanted to make that fact known.

Gotta let kids play the game at some point. There was no flow at all during the game for either team cause there was a 2 minute stoppage after every play

Agreed. That crew definitely wasn't the valleys best. I watched the JV game and half of varsity.

[kastnertbirds]

[MiddleSchoolLegend]

What I noticed is that some officials tend to be biased towards one team.

This has to be one of the first times in the history of this board that the correct tense of bias was used on the first go. 

[MiddleSchoolLegend]

[RoadDawg]

I've seen some pretty bad officiating in my day, and to me they fall into two categories (for the most part)

High School: It's all about me, I dictate how this game is going to be played attitude. The types of guys that didn't get to play meaningful snaps in high school, somewhat bullied, always had the girl he liked taken by the guy starting at his position, then went into law enforcement or something of that nature to "show them"

Pop Warner: "Let's end this crap so I can go home and collect my check."

I know there are some really good ones out there, just the bad ones seem to carry these two types of personalities in my opinion. That is excluding the personal bias that some have on top of that.

I totally agree with you... There are a lot of good ones, and they put up with a lot of idiotic BS from fans, but nonetheless, far too many have obvious egos and power issues when they put those stripes on.

[RoadDawg]

[The Eye in the Sky]

I totally agree with you... There are a lot of good ones, and they put up with a lot of idiotic BS from fans, but nonetheless, far too many have obvious egos and power issues when they put those stripes on.

Saw the absolute worst case of this at a Pop Warner game in Visalia this weekend.

[The Eye in the Sky]

[RoadDawg]

Saw the absolute worst case of this at a Pop Warner game in Visalia this weekend.

Well, youth games are not CIF and the league can ban any ref if they feel its warranted. 

[RoadDawg]

[footballforever]

Well, youth games are not CIF and the league can ban any ref if they feel its warranted.

Schools that use arbiter (which is most of them) have the option of blocking several refs for each sport. The down side is that when you block part of a team of officials you reduce the pool from which the assigner sends you refs.
It isnt worth blocking unless there is a flagrant problem/incompetence or character issue (such as an official who curses or denigrates the players on the field--I have seen this happen)
It is better to have the AD write notes/comments in arbiter that the assigner can evaluate.

[footballforever]

[Tuhs97]

Taft at Arvin jv game.
Got here start of the 4th. Over 20 penalties so far. Clean jersey tackles from the front of Jersey being called horse collar on both teams. Lead blockers trucking defense, as well as pancake blocks being called for holding. Please don't be the varsity refs...

[Tuhs97]

[good #2]

I need some clarification on two calls I saw last night...

#1 -- JV game.  Team A has the ball, 4th and 12.  Team A runs a play and is hit by a player from Team B out of bounds after about a 5 yard gain.  Ref throws a flag for late hit.  Team B is awarded the ball and then assessed the 15 yard penalty.  1st and 10 Team B.  Refs explanation:  It was a dead ball foul.  Is this correct?

#2 -- Varsity game.  Kickoff by Team A.  Player from Team B picks the ball up at the two yard line and momentum carries him into the end zone.  Ref stops the play and gives Team B the ball at the two yard line.  This can't be correct!  Either Team B should get the ball at the 20 or be allowed to return the kick.......right???

[good #2]

[CWClassof2007]

I need some clarification on two calls I saw last night...

#1 -- JV game.  Team A has the ball, 4th and 12.  Team A runs a play and is hit by a player from Team B out of bounds after about a 5 yard gain.  Ref throws a flag for late hit.  Team B is awarded the ball and then assessed the 15 yard penalty.  1st and 10 Team B.  Refs explanation:  It was a dead ball foul.  Is this correct?

#2 -- Varsity game.  Kickoff by Team A.  Player from Team B picks the ball up at the two yard line and momentum carries him into the end zone.  Ref stops the play and gives Team B the ball at the two yard line.  This can't be correct!  Either Team B should get the ball at the 20 or be allowed to return the kick.......right???

#1 It should have been an automatic first down with team A keeping the ball.

#2 My understanding is that stepping into the endzone results in a touchback. But I have seen refs let the ball be returned. I've never seen it called dead like that.

[CWClassof2007]

[DTFan]

Last night's Delano @ Foothill game was a head scratcher....

For the first half, the crew was calling the game right down the middle. When Delano committed an foul, a penalty wast justly marked against Delano...The same for Foothill. But when the Third Quarter started, it was a totally different story. Foothill would committ obvious fouls, most right infront of the head official, and nothing would be called. Everything from face mask to holding. There was even a play where both the Foothill runner and the Delano defender met up as the defender was tackling the runner. Both had their heads lowered and both made an attempt to avoid helmet to helmet contact.

Now if there was helmet to helmet contact, you would obviously hear it. No contact was made yet Delano was given a personal fould for helmet to helmet contact. Another head scratcher was when a Delano defender intercepted a pass. He dove for the ball, CLEARLY  had both hands under the ball well before he landed on the ground. The referee who made the call of incomplete pass was behind the defender and had no view of the ball. Tell me, how can he even make a call if he was out of view? I'm not even going to mention before the ball was snapped, the Foothill runner would take off.

It makes me wonder, why aren't these officials called out on their inconsistencies?

[DTFan]

[RoadDawg]

The refs totally blew the end of the SJM - Sunnyside game.   Sunnyside had the ball, no time outs, and the clock was running with under 10 seconds to play.  SHS hustled to the line, where their QB fumbled the snap and dove on the ball, while the clock ran out.  Game over right... wrong, the refs convened for some unknown reason, then put 2 seconds back on the clock and allowed SHS a FG attempt, which they made to win the game with no time on the clock.

I know, you shouldn't be in a position to let the refs determine the game, but there is still no reason I can think of why SHS should have been allowed another play, when the game was technically over. 

[RoadDawg]

[DTFan]

I agree with you RoadDawg. The game should have been over. No reason whatsoever that the game should have been allowed to continue. I would love to hear what their explanation would be.

Should the head of the officials in Tulare, Kings, Kern, etc be held accountable along with Critchlow?

[DTFan]

[footballforever]

I agree with you RoadDawg. The game should have been over. No reason whatsoever that the game should have been allowed to continue. I would love to hear what their explanation would be.

Should the head of the officials in Tulare, Kings, Kern, etc be held accountable along with Critchlow?

Other than signing the contract with the officials association, Crichlow doesn't have any responsibility for the actions/competency of individuals or crews or officials. That is the purview of the presidents of the associations and the heads of the specific sports.
School officials should contact the assigner/head of officials for the sport with complaints or concerns. Video evidence is helpful.
The section office takes a role when an official issues an ejection. In those situations, the section office analyzes the circumstances to determine if a rule was misapplied or misinterpreted, or if a player was misidentified.

[footballforever]

[RoadDawg]

... Video evidence is helpful. The section office takes a role when an official issues an ejection. In those situations, the section office analyzes the circumstances to determine if a rule was misapplied or misinterpreted, or if a player was misidentified.

In the SJM - Sunnyside game, the video clearly shows the SHS QB obviously fumbled on the last play, and there was absolutely no reason for another play to be granted.  Furthermore, without the refs stopping the game, SHS would not have had the time to get their FG unit on the field.  Nonetheless, even if the mistake is acknowledged it won't overturn the final score of the game, which is what matters.  It's just mind boggling how they can blow such easy calls. 

[RoadDawg]

[footballforever]

In the SJM - Sunnyside game, the video clearly shows the SHS QB obviously fumbled on the last play, and there was absolutely no reason for another play to be granted.  Furthermore, without the refs stopping the game, SHS would not have had the time to get their FG unit on the field.  Nonetheless, even if the mistake is acknowledged it won't overturn the final score of the game, which is what matters.  It's just mind boggling how they can blow such easy calls.

Perhaps the handful of officials who are preps members can comment on how/whether video is used in the frequent officials training meetings to highlight both positive and negative examples of specific calls/rule applications. The SJVOA has almost weekly meetings of the various sports groups on my school site.
Is PigIron still around? I seem to recall him writing several years ago that he was a football official....

[footballforever]

[Tuhs97]

The refs totally blew the end of the SJM - Sunnyside game.   Sunnyside had the ball, no time outs, and the clock was running with under 10 seconds to play.  SHS hustled to the line, where their QB fumbled the snap and dove on the ball, while the clock ran out.  Game over right... wrong, the refs convened for some unknown reason, then put 2 seconds back on the clock and allowed SHS a FG attempt, which they made to win the game with no time on the clock.

I know, you shouldn't be in a position to let the refs determine the game, but there is still no reason I can think of why SHS should have been allowed another play, when the game was technically over. 

Without seeing the play, my only explanation would be the refs got together and said he was spiking the ball to stop the clock, but with your explanation should of been game over. You never know with some refs..

[Tuhs97]

[RoadDawg]

Without seeing the play, my only explanation would be the refs got together and said he was spiking the ball to stop the clock, but with your explanation should of been game over. You never know with some refs..

Thats what we thought too... but it was clearly a fumble during the exchange, and the white hat gave the "start the clock" sign after he reset the ball, which he would not do if it had been ruled an incomplete pass.  Unexplainable error...

[RoadDawg]

[goodref]

Perhaps the handful of officials who are preps members can comment on how/whether video is used in the frequent officials training meetings to highlight both positive and negative examples of specific calls/rule applications. The SJVOA has almost weekly meetings of the various sports groups on my school site.
Is PigIron still around? I seem to recall him writing several years ago that he was a football official....

hi guys. Yes, we do use various training videos, as well as HUDL for reviewing both the good and the bad. this is relatively new and seems very promising. BUT, there will always be officials who just don't want to improve and a continued lack of interested prospects.

[goodref]

[TeddyKGB]

If I may offer this up and guys that are refs can correct me if I am wrong it seems to me that the reason official are "questionable" is due to lack of experience and that comes from having to move to the faster varsity games too soon because of a lack of officials. If I recall officials start at the youth levels and move up as they improve/gather experience; I have witnessed parents and coaches at the youth (GEYF, NOR and Jack Frost) be merciless to rookie officials so it comes as no surprises that guys are not wanting to keep doing it. Again, that's just what I have noticed.

[TeddyKGB]

[Glenn]

I agree with you RoadDawg. The game should have been over. No reason whatsoever that the game should have been allowed to continue. I would love to hear what their explanation would be.

Should the head of the officials in Tulare, Kings, Kern, etc be held accountable along with Critchlow?

let me Explain   my Opioion  here 

I was born and riase  in 2 Different State   Alabama    is  1 Behind  Georgia    and Georgia     from California 3 behind to Georgia 

when  I was grew up   all the game  in Alabama will Start  at  8     
here a sample  if  Georgia team   play  in Alabama for High school  Football   on weekend their Start  at  8  Alabama Time  not Georgia Time   

all the games  start  at 7:30  in Georgia   always Over by 9:15  or  9:45  between thems Hours  9:15 to 9:45   pm at nights 

I would walk  in my Home by 10:30     or 1 am   if  I am asst coach  or Films games  bc  I Upload all the films   from varisty press box   

but  Nomal fan will be home after a game end  if their don't pick up their Son  or Band member   or  cheerleader    from School 

in the old day  all Students have to ride the bus back to School for Safe reason    not from Football Staduim

If you played  out  of town  here smaple   all games start  7:30    if you play  in your Own state      it depend  on  how far the trip from Town to bakerfield Ca  or Fresno ca    it always take  60  in car  ride back to town  or  1:25   it depend  on traffic    on HWY   and shorts hwy     

But  many game  start  at 7:15  or 7:30      is good but  if  it is 50 penalty   until 11  or 12     when the game end  thems Offical  need rethink call the game  if a team have to Traffic back   to their own town and school for pick up Students   

it  ok have 20 penalty   but    the game  go on  long too   until 10:00   that Namal  if you play close game but  or   it not good  if you Blew  out a team by 25       or more   their still call Penilty    on both team 

Most the Offical want get  out there  bc their Offical JV and varisty game  one night   but    Offical want fair game call everything   

Like 2 week ago CVC play Chowchilla  we was over by 10:00  that nomal  in close game         

[Glenn]

[Glenn]

Other than signing the contract with the officials association, Crichlow doesn't have any responsibility for the actions/competency of individuals or crews or officials. That is the purview of the presidents of the associations and the heads of the specific sports.
School officials should contact the assigner/head of officials for the sport with complaints or concerns. Video evidence is helpful.
The section office takes a role when an official issues an ejection. In those situations, the section office analyzes the circumstances to determine if a rule was misapplied or misinterpreted, or if a player was misidentified.

but you have to talk who  in Charge for  officials association   Request    who you wat and who you don't wont    Doing your home game 

[Glenn]

[DTFan]

What I've noticed is that if schools request to not have certain officials, and they have a valid reason and complaints to back it up, those schools will get THE worse of the worse of crews sent to them. I've seen it happen numerous times.

[DTFan]

[footballforever]

What I've noticed is that if schools request to not have certain officials, and they have a valid reason and complaints to back it up, those schools will get THE worse of the worse of crews sent to them. I've seen it happen numerous times.

I posit that is not the norm. I have blocked a few officials for various sports over the years and I do not see a correlation between blocking certain guys and getting less competent officials as a result.

[footballforever]

[Forceuser]

I posit that is not the norm. I have blocked a few officials for various sports over the years and I do not see a correlation between blocking certain guys and getting less competent officials as a result.

I agree, I send stuff to them on hudl all the time.  As long as you are not a compete A-hole to them, most of them are good guys.  You do have your bad apples like you have in any profession.  We as coaches have to remember that just like refs and their reputation, you as a coach get one too.  They have meetings too, and they discuss games and coaches.  I know I am not perfect and I let them know when I feel they are wrong, and I admit if I am wrong.  But at the end of the day, we are all human, and we are going to make mistakes.  It's not like the Refs are sitting on the sidelines going...."Coach....that was a horrible call.  What are you blind?  They are in a cover 2 and you are trying to throw outside hitches." 

[Forceuser]

[footballforever]

It's not like the Refs are sitting on the sidelines going...."Coach....that was a horrible call.  What are you blind?  They are in a cover 2 and you are trying to throw outside hitches."

yeah, we have parents and Prepsters for that

[footballforever]

[TeddyKGB]

yeah, we have parents and Prepsters for that

you do understand that critiquing the calls is part of the appeal of watching sports?

[TeddyKGB]

[footballforever]

you do understand that critiquing the calls is part of the appeal of watching sports?

I also understand that "critiquing" each other is another part of the appeal of watching/engaging this site.
I should have used the tongue in cheek symbol. I believe there was a thread a few years ago that discussed the best way to indicate sarcasm, half-joking and ironic comments and the consensus was to use that emoji, but I was away from the site for a couple years so it may not be the practice anymore.

[footballforever]

[DarthVeer]

What I've noticed is that if schools request to not have certain officials, and they have a valid reason and complaints to back it up, those schools will get THE worse of the worse of crews sent to them. I've seen it happen numerous times.

not necessarily true. We blacklisted a guy for 6 years in Corcoran. Got decent guys during that time. After being gone from the central valley for a couple of years I am very appreciative of the officiating we got. It was never perfect and there was always a little bias but at least you could talk to Phil Lazzano and have a conversation about issues. Where I am now there is no avenue for a conversation or even a complaint. These officials are unchecked and have amazing biases. I have had officials make calls from 50 yards away and on the opposite side of the field. In a playoff game I saw officials discount a TD where the kid makes a great catch and the official was shielded by the defender from seeing it. the home team was on defense so boom it was incomplete. Later in that game the home team misses a field goal the official calls roughing the center call. allows the home team to run off 2 more mins of time and re try the kick. I was in shock of what they doing and how it seems to be business as usual. Make me really appreciate the guys who worked my games for years in Corcoran.

[DarthVeer]